My first bike: Helmet & California License Question

"Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." wrote in message

>I just bought my first bike and may I ask two questions I can't seem to get
> the answer from my brother on?
>
> The first question is about HELMETS for beginners.
>
> What's the difference between Snell full face helmets Shoei or Simpsons or
> HJC or whatever? My brother says Shoei is the best but he can't tell me
> why. As long as it's Snell, how can I tell the difference ...

Fit, comfort, noise level, durability, ability to clean the headliner etc.
Not a lot of it has to do with protection, most of the higher price is for
gee whiz features and wear comfort. Which, mind you, is important if you put
enough miles on the bike, and also if you don't wear earplugs.

Shoei is not a great fit for me personally, by the way, but it is for many
others. You have to try them on - big moey is not a guarantee it'll work for
*you*.

> ... I borrowed my brother' Shoei which didn't fit and it
> was horrid.

There's no dboubting Shoei quality, but if it's not the right fit for you
thay'd be the first to tel you that that's all that matters.

> The second question is about the California license. My brother said to
> not
> even think about taking the dumb California DMV motorcycle driving test
> saying the DMV designed that test just to make me pay the money to take
> the
> MSF class

Your brother is right. Take the MSF class. Plenty of classes and sources
available as seen elsewhere in this thread.

....pablo
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

"Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." wrote

>I just bought my first bike and may I ask two questions I can't seem to get
> the answer from my brother on?
>
> The first question is about HELMETS for beginners.

There's really no such thing as a "beginner's" helmet, so long as it's Snell
approved. They all have to meet the same safety standards to get the Snell
label, although there's not much doubt you get better quality -and often
lighter weight as well- as the prices escalate.
You *do* want to take the time to try on a lot of helmets and get the one
that fits you best -and BTW it should be just a bit tight at first. Helmets
loosen up somewhat as the foam lining compresses with age, and you don't
want it to be flopping back and forth on your noggin once it's broken in.

> What REALLY is the TRUE difference (please remove advertising and
> marketing
> from this discussion) between a Snell Shoei and a Snell Simpsons and a
> Snell Bell from a cheaper Snell HJC (full face only).

Mostly looks, ventilation, suitability for differing head shapes, and
differing types of visor attachment. Brand differences aren't as important
as getting the proper fit, as an ill-fitting helmet can give you a whopping
headache after a couple of hours.
After a Snell sticker and a good fit, you also want to take weight into
consideration. The lighter the helmet, the more comfortable it will be when
wearing it for several hours at a time.

> The second question is about the California license. My brother said to
> not
> even think about taking the dumb California DMV motorcycle driving test
> saying the DMV designed that test just to make me pay the money to take
> the
> MSF class even though I'm in my mid twenties and don't have to take the
> class by law. He didn't take the class because he got his license when we
> lived down south, but I never had a license.

I didn't find the DMV motorcycle driving test to be difficult at all, but
I'd been riding -mostly in the dirt- for over 40 years when I finally took
it. And even if you could pass the dreaded "keyhole" test, it still wouldn't
teach you the hundred and one things the MSF will teach you about riding
safely and sensibly: stuff I and a bunch of my pre-MSF riding buddies had to
pick up the hard way.

Pete
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

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 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

The difference between better grade helmet brands is the fit and styling.
Some are for round skulls, some for pear, etc. Try on lots of helmets until
you find one you like, then buy the same model and size cheaper online.

Take the MSF course. It can't hurt you to know more about riding, and you
won't have to do the dreaded "lollipop test"
--
--
Stupendous Man
Defender of Liberty, Advocate of Justice
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

There's been many near-endless debates about helmets (search Google) so I
won't comment on that.
As for the MSF course, TAKE IT! In addition to the good reasons listed in
other replies here, you'll probably save enough in insurance premiums to
more than pay for the course fee.

Enjoy your ride!

Bart



"Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." wrote in message

>I just bought my first bike and may I ask two questions I can't seem to get
> the answer from my brother on?
>
> The first question is about HELMETS for beginners.
>
> What's the difference between Snell full face helmets Shoei or Simpsons or
> HJC or whatever? My brother says Shoei is the best but he can't tell me
> why. As long as it's Snell, how can I tell the difference between a 125
> dollar HJC from a 500 dollar Shoei? They both look, fit, and feel the same
> to me in the store and I borrowed my brother' Shoei which didn't fit and
> it
> was horrid.
>
> What REALLY is the TRUE difference (please remove advertising and
> marketing
> from this discussion) between a Snell Shoei and a Snell Simpsons and a
> Snell Bell from a cheaper Snell HJC (full face only).
>
> The second question is about the California license. My brother said to
> not
> even think about taking the dumb California DMV motorcycle driving test
> saying the DMV designed that test just to make me pay the money to take
> the
> MSF class even though I'm in my mid twenties and don't have to take the
> class by law. He didn't take the class because he got his license when we
> lived down south, but I never had a license.
>
> Where do I get the information to take the MSF class?
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

In terms of safety, Snell full-face helmets are pretty much all
the same. And helmets for beginners are exactly the same as
helmets for racers. The only real difference is that expensive
one typically have lots of vents and whizbang features. You'll
be perfectly OK starting with a cheaper helmet if you'd like.

If you're not already an experienced rider, I highly recommend
that you not do anything beyond sitting on the bike and making
vroom vroom noises in the driveway without taking the MSF class.
Not only does it save you from the ridiculous keyhole test, but
it will give you extremely valuable accident-avoidance skills in
an environment free of idiot-piloted SUVs. Wouldn't you rather
learn to panic stop before your life depends on it?

Soooooo, now the important thing... what'd you get?

-Patti
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
pattib~pattib.org | All religions are equally
http://www.pattib.org/ | ludicrous, and should be ridiculed
www.urbanscapephoto.com | as often as possible. C. Bond
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

"Patti Beadles" wrote in message

> In terms of safety, Snell full-face helmets are pretty much all
> the same. And helmets for beginners are exactly the same as
> helmets for racers. The only real difference is that expensive
> one typically have lots of vents and whizbang features. You'll
> be perfectly OK starting with a cheaper helmet if you'd like.
>
> If you're not already an experienced rider, I highly recommend
> that you not do anything beyond sitting on the bike and making
> vroom vroom noises in the driveway without taking the MSF class.
> Not only does it save you from the ridiculous keyhole test, but
> it will give you extremely valuable accident-avoidance skills in
> an environment free of idiot-piloted SUVs. Wouldn't you rather
> learn to panic stop before your life depends on it?
>
> Soooooo, now the important thing... what'd you get?
>
> -Patti
> --
> Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
> pattib~pattib.org | All religions are equally
> http://www.pattib.org/ | ludicrous, and should be ridiculed
> www.urbanscapephoto.com | as often as possible. C. Bond

Great advice, Patti. I hope, too, that she does ZERO riding until it's
during the MSF course.

I also highly recommend the Ride Like A Pro video. It teaches what the
motorcycle cops learn -- with emphasis on "head AND eyes pointed where you
want to go" and the low speed techniques utilizing the "friction zone" and
the rear brake.

www.ridelikeapro.com

Bob
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

In article ,
"Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." wrote:

> I just bought my first bike and may I ask two questions I can't seem to get
> the answer from my brother on?
>
> The first question is about HELMETS for beginners.
>
> What's the difference between Snell full face helmets Shoei or Simpsons or
> HJC or whatever? My brother says Shoei is the best but he can't tell me
> why. As long as it's Snell, how can I tell the difference between a 125
> dollar HJC from a 500 dollar Shoei? They both look, fit, and feel the same
> to me in the store and I borrowed my brother' Shoei which didn't fit and it
> was horrid.

Arai, Shoei, Simpson, HJC, etc. are manufacturers of helmets. Snell and
DOT are testing standards. DOT means (United States) Department Of
Transportation and any helmet you wear must have that certification.
Snell is the name of a guy who died in a race car accident; the
foundation named after him does research and testing of helmets for a
variety of sports including motorcycling.

Arai and Shoei are widely held to be the "best", but as long as a helmet
meets DOT or Snell, it will work. (If it meets Snell requirements, it
meets DOT.) But the most important thing is whether it's comfortable for
you.

> What REALLY is the TRUE difference (please remove advertising and marketing
> from this discussion) between a Snell Shoei and a Snell Simpsons and a
> Snell Bell from a cheaper Snell HJC (full face only).

As others have written, it's all about materials and comfort. Get the
helmet that fits you best. When I bought my first helmet, my brother
said, "You got an Arai, right?" I said, "No, I got the one that fit."

> The second question is about the California license. My brother said to not
> even think about taking the dumb California DMV motorcycle driving test
> saying the DMV designed that test just to make me pay the money to take the
> MSF class even though I'm in my mid twenties and don't have to take the
> class by law. He didn't take the class because he got his license when we
> lived down south, but I never had a license.
>
> Where do I get the information to take the MSF class?

http://www.ca-msp.org/

Take the class. Then please report back to us on why any newbie should
take the class.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
It's easy to say a war is so important your neighbor should go fight it for you.
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

"Anne P. Mitchell, Esq." wrote in message

>I just bought my first bike and may I ask two questions I can't seem to get
> the answer from my brother on?
>
> The first question is about HELMETS for beginners.
>
> What's the difference between Snell full face helmets Shoei or Simpsons or
> HJC or whatever? My brother says Shoei is the best but he can't tell me
> why. As long as it's Snell, how can I tell the difference between a 125
> dollar HJC from a 500 dollar Shoei? They both look, fit, and feel the same
> to me in the store and I borrowed my brother' Shoei which didn't fit and
> it
> was horrid.
>
> What REALLY is the TRUE difference (please remove advertising and
> marketing
> from this discussion) between a Snell Shoei and a Snell Simpsons and a
> Snell Bell from a cheaper Snell HJC (full face only).
>
> The second question is about the California license. My brother said to
> not
> even think about taking the dumb California DMV motorcycle driving test
> saying the DMV designed that test just to make me pay the money to take
> the
> MSF class even though I'm in my mid twenties and don't have to take the
> class by law. He didn't take the class because he got his license when we
> lived down south, but I never had a license.
>
> Where do I get the information to take the MSF class?

A little OT from OP questions. After riding for 30 years, In abouy 1953
Colorado DMV decided motorcycle riders must have a designated (M) on their
drivers license or be ticketed. Drove done to the DMV and asked how I would
get my cycle there for the test legally And was told We don't watch to see
how you get here. The TEST was in a small parking lot. Fellow giving test
said go to far end of lot, Drive as fast as you can towards me and slam on
the brakes so as not to hit me. Well I gave theDMV my $$$ and passed test.
What a sham. I still get my (M) on drivers license to this day. But only
trail ride.
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 04:49:46 GMT, "Anne P. Mitchell, Esq."
wrote:

>I just bought my first bike and may I ask two questions I can't seem to get
>the answer from my brother on?
>
>The first question is about HELMETS for beginners.
>
>What's the difference between Snell full face helmets Shoei or Simpsons or
>HJC or whatever? My brother says Shoei is the best but he can't tell me
>why. As long as it's Snell, how can I tell the difference between a 125
>dollar HJC from a 500 dollar Shoei? They both look, fit, and feel the same
>to me in the store and I borrowed my brother' Shoei which didn't fit and it
>was horrid.

As you have just observed, a vitally important feature of a motorcycle
helmet is that it shoud fit comfortably. The helmet that fits your
brother may not fit you as well. Others have explained about DOT and
Snell standards. Once these are met, your comfort should dictate your
choice of which full-face helmet to buy (consider helmets other than
full face only if you don't like your face).
>
>The second question is about the California license. My brother said to not
>even think about taking the dumb California DMV motorcycle driving test
>saying the DMV designed that test just to make me pay the money to take the
>MSF class even though I'm in my mid twenties and don't have to take the
>class by law. He didn't take the class because he got his license when we
>lived down south, but I never had a license.

Wait a minute. Aren't you an attorney of some years experience
interested in child custody issues? With regard to the DMV motorycle
skills test, the test was designed before the MSF course existed. The
test will not substitute for the MSF course, nor does passing it
indicate much of anything about your competance to ride a motorcycle.
He is correct in describing the test as dumb, however...
>
>Where do I get the information to take the MSF class?

See Timberwoof's earlier reply.

Al Moore
DoD 734
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

In article ,
Alan Moore wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Sep 2007 04:49:46 GMT, "Anne P. Mitchell, Esq."
> wrote:
>
> >I just bought my first bike and may I ask two questions I can't seem to get
> >the answer from my brother on?
> >
> >The first question is about HELMETS for beginners.
> >
> >What's the difference between Snell full face helmets Shoei or Simpsons or
> >HJC or whatever? My brother says Shoei is the best but he can't tell me
> >why. As long as it's Snell, how can I tell the difference between a 125
> >dollar HJC from a 500 dollar Shoei? They both look, fit, and feel the same
> >to me in the store and I borrowed my brother' Shoei which didn't fit and it
> >was horrid.
>
> As you have just observed, a vitally important feature of a motorcycle
> helmet is that it shoud fit comfortably. The helmet that fits your
> brother may not fit you as well. Others have explained about DOT and
> Snell standards. Once these are met, your comfort should dictate your
> choice of which full-face helmet to buy (consider helmets other than
> full face only if you don't like your face).
> >
> >The second question is about the California license. My brother said to not
> >even think about taking the dumb California DMV motorcycle driving test
> >saying the DMV designed that test just to make me pay the money to take the
> >MSF class even though I'm in my mid twenties and don't have to take the
> >class by law. He didn't take the class because he got his license when we
> >lived down south, but I never had a license.
>
> Wait a minute. Aren't you an attorney of some years experience
> interested in child custody issues?

I don't think THAT Ann P. Mitchell is in her "mid twenties." Let's
see, she was testifying before the California state senate in 1995,
that would put her at about 14 years old at the time...

http://www.dadsrights.org/testimony/summitapm.html

> With regard to the DMV motorycle
> skills test, the test was designed before the MSF course existed. The
> test will not substitute for the MSF course, nor does passing it
> indicate much of anything about your competance to ride a motorcycle.
> He is correct in describing the test as dumb, however...

Nor does passing the MSF course indicate much of anything about your
competence to ride a motorcycle in traffic on a public highway. It
gives you some rudimentary tools to practice with, which is far better
than nothing, but to ride relatively safely on the street requires a
well-developed set of skills which take a significant amount of time,
practice and ability.

The best way to start getting those skills is to practice riding a
light-weight dual sport off the public roads.

But what do I know...

--
Charles
'99 YZ250
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

Timberwoof writes:

> meets DOT or Snell, it will work. (If it meets Snell requirements, it
> meets DOT.) But the most important thing is whether it's comfortable for
> you.

Is that a recent development? Last time I checked Snell was NOT superset
of FMVSS 218 (AKA 49 CFR 571.218). Or are you writing from a purely
practical point of view? It that case I agree... what company would
bother creating a Snell only helmet that couldn't legally be used in
the US.

> > What REALLY is the TRUE difference (please remove advertising and marketing
> > from this discussion) between a Snell Shoei and a Snell Simpsons and a
> > Snell Bell from a cheaper Snell HJC (full face only).

See http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/
for more on that subject.

// marc
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question 

In article ,
Marco S Hyman wrote:

> Timberwoof writes:
>
> > meets DOT or Snell, it will work. (If it meets Snell requirements, it
> > meets DOT.) But the most important thing is whether it's comfortable for
> > you.
>
> Is that a recent development? Last time I checked Snell was NOT superset
> of FMVSS 218 (AKA 49 CFR 571.218). Or are you writing from a purely
> practical point of view? It that case I agree... what company would
> bother creating a Snell only helmet that couldn't legally be used in
> the US.
>
> > > What REALLY is the TRUE difference (please remove advertising and
> > > marketing
> > > from this discussion) between a Snell Shoei and a Snell Simpsons and a
> > > Snell Bell from a cheaper Snell HJC (full face only).
>
> See http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/motorcycle_helmet_review/
> for more on that subject.
>
> // marc

Thanks for the url.

--
Charles
'99 YZ250
 >> Stay informed about: My first bike: Helmet & California License Question