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I'm a believer (Spoiler)

 
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Champ1

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Since: Jan 02, 2004
Posts: 4780



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:01 pm
Post subject: I'm a believer (Spoiler)
Archived from groups: rec>motorcycles>racing (more info?)

I've been waiting for Stoner to make a mistake. Well, today was the
day for him to make it, and he didn't. In fact, he gave everyone else
a riding lesson, finishing 10 seconds clear at the end, I believe.

Of course, it was another day when tyres were crucial, and it looks
like Bridgestone have got Michelin beat in the wet as well as in the
dry, and this time on what used to be one of Michelin's best tracks.

But still, Stoner is looking unbeatable now. He's more than a whole
race win ahead, with no obvious flaws in the rider/bike/tyre package.
--
Champ

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Paul B

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Since: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 13



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:01 pm
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On 24 Jun, 17:01, Champ wrote:
> I've been waiting for Stoner to make a mistake. Well, today was the
> day for him to make it, and he didn't. In fact, he gave everyone else
> a riding lesson, finishing 10 seconds clear at the end, I believe.
>
> Of course, it was another day when tyres were crucial, and it looks
> like Bridgestone have got Michelin beat in the wet as well as in the
> dry, and this time on what used to be one of Michelin's best tracks.
>
> But still, Stoner is looking unbeatable now. He's more than a whole
> race win ahead, with no obvious flaws in the rider/bike/tyre package.
> --
> Champ

Yep he is proving to be an excellent rider, obviously the bike, tyre
combo is also very good but there is only Stoner, no Cap or Barros so
the guys talent has to be believed. This race wasn't about top end
either, the track was treacherous, the tyres had gone off and there
was no long straight for the Duc to stretch it's legs, this really was
a riders race and Casey did the job. Well done to him. His team
never seem to give him a huge reception at parc ferme, I always expect
them to be carrying him shoulder high and be all exuburent but it's
realitively low key, almost like "ho hum, anothėr win".

However on the downside Hayden DNFing and Ant West running into the
gravel, Pedrosa fading and Capirossi chucking it.

Other high points, Chris V getting 3rd, Ant West still getting 11th,
Edwards actually not going backwards or sticking his tounge out in
interviews (or did I miss that?) and who's that other guy??? ummm oh
yeah Rossi he got 4th.

Paul

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russell-watson

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Since: Jun 24, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:49 pm
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On Jun 24, 12:01 pm, Champ wrote:
> I've been waiting for Stoner to make a mistake. Well, today was the
> day for him to make it, and he didn't. In fact, he gave everyone else
> a riding lesson, finishing 10 seconds clear at the end, I believe.
>
> Of course, it was another day when tyres were crucial, and it looks
> like Bridgestone have got Michelin beat in the wet as well as in the
> dry, and this time on what used to be one of Michelin's best tracks.
>
> But still, Stoner is looking unbeatable now. He's more than a whole
> race win ahead, with no obvious flaws in the rider/bike/tyre package.
> --
> Champ

If you had to I suppose you could put his start in the "mistake"
category, but all he did to make up for it negates it.
Happy to see Edwards actually stay up front in a race, and his post-
race interview was pretty funny, too.
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sturd

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Since: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 22



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:09 pm
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Champ notes:

> I've been waiting for Stoner to make a mistake. Well, today was the
> day for him to make it, and he didn't. In fact, he gave everyone else
> a riding lesson, finishing 10 seconds clear at the end, I believe.

Yep, I'm thinking he's the real deal now.

Hayden - dang boy, toss it two wet races in a row?

Pedrosa - maybe similar tire/setup choice as Hayden? That's
why he went backwards (and Nicky fell)?

Edwards - not going backwards is a big plus. Well done.

Rossi - hmmmm. Looked like a normal racer with issues. Maybe
the reign is truly over?

West - that was cool until.......

Speed channel. Wankers. I actually called the track PA announcer
at Miller to get him to strangle whoever was in charge. We're
watching the cool off lap of Miller Stuporbike instead of MotoGP!!!
His Griffy-ness said he'd get on it but didn't seem to really help.
And speaking of stuporbikes, the antiChrist pulls off another
semi miracle (from broken femur to jogging back for the restart
in 26 seconds) and

Tommy Hayden - stick a fork in him and turn him over. He's
done.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
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Carne Asada

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Since: Nov 05, 2006
Posts: 7



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:15 pm
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No Doubt! I heard commentators mention that critics in the Italian press
were giving the Ducati all the credit. I wonder how they rationalize Loris?
Stoner absolutely ruled today.
"Champ" wrote in message

> I've been waiting for Stoner to make a mistake. Well, today was the
> day for him to make it, and he didn't. In fact, he gave everyone else
> a riding lesson, finishing 10 seconds clear at the end, I believe.
>
> Of course, it was another day when tyres were crucial, and it looks
> like Bridgestone have got Michelin beat in the wet as well as in the
> dry, and this time on what used to be one of Michelin's best tracks.
>
> But still, Stoner is looking unbeatable now. He's more than a whole
> race win ahead, with no obvious flaws in the rider/bike/tyre package.
> --
> Champ
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Howard Kveck

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Since: Oct 14, 2003
Posts: 88



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:01 pm
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In article ,
sturd wrote:

> Champ notes:
>
> > I've been waiting for Stoner to make a mistake. Well, today was the
> > day for him to make it, and he didn't. In fact, he gave everyone else
> > a riding lesson, finishing 10 seconds clear at the end, I believe.
>
> Yep, I'm thinking he's the real deal now.

Absolutely right. He's got the right machine / tire combo but he's been riding
super well.

> Hayden - dang boy, toss it two wet races in a row?
>
> Pedrosa - maybe similar tire/setup choice as Hayden? That's
> why he went backwards (and Nicky fell)?

Yep, the tires didn't work when the track started to dry. What's interesting is
that Edwards ran a soft rear and the others (DP, VR and NH) had mediums but they
still had complaints about the compound being to soft.

> Edwards - not going backwards is a big plus. Well done.

Yeah, I was glad to see that.

> Rossi - hmmmm. Looked like a normal racer with issues. Maybe
> the reign is truly over?

His back tire was cooked, apparently.

> West - that was cool until.......

Let's hope that it wasn't a one-shot deal. I think he's proven to be a good racer
in other classes so I think he'll continue to do well.

I'm glad to see Pasini finally win in 125 after having so many mechanicals this
year. And the 250 title run is somewhat closed up after Lorenzo and Bautista crashed
out.

> Speed channel. Wankers. I actually called the track PA announcer
> at Miller to get him to strangle whoever was in charge. We're
> watching the cool off lap of Miller Stuporbike instead of MotoGP!!!
> His Griffy-ness said he'd get on it but didn't seem to really help.
> And speaking of stuporbikes, the antiChrist pulls off another
> semi miracle (from broken femur to jogging back for the restart
> in 26 seconds) and
>
> Tommy Hayden - stick a fork in him and turn him over. He's
> done.

He's never been very good in Superbike, has he?

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
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walter

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Since: Jun 25, 2007
Posts: 2



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:18 am
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concur.

his performance...man, machine, luck...positively rossi-esque.

w

On Jun 24, 12:01 pm, Champ wrote:
> I've been waiting for Stoner to make a mistake. Well, today was the
> day for him to make it, and he didn't. In fact, he gave everyone else
> a riding lesson, finishing 10 seconds clear at the end, I believe.
>
> Of course, it was another day when tyres were crucial, and it looks
> like Bridgestone have got Michelin beat in the wet as well as in the
> dry, and this time on what used to be one of Michelin's best tracks.
>
> But still, Stoner is looking unbeatable now. He's more than a whole
> race win ahead, with no obvious flaws in the rider/bike/tyre package.
> --
> Champ
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guig

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Since: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 79



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:57 pm
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Ron

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Since: Apr 22, 2007
Posts: 17



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:28 am
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On 25-Jun-2007, Howard Kveck wrote:

> In article ,
> sturd wrote:
>
> > Champ notes:
> >
> > > I've been waiting for Stoner to make a mistake. Well, today was the
> > > day for him to make it, and he didn't. In fact, he gave everyone else
> > > a riding lesson, finishing 10 seconds clear at the end, I believe.
> >
> > Yep, I'm thinking he's the real deal now.
>
> Absolutely right. He's got the right machine / tire combo but he's been
> riding
> super well.
>
> > Hayden - dang boy, toss it two wet races in a row?
> >
> > Pedrosa - maybe similar tire/setup choice as Hayden? That's
> > why he went backwards (and Nicky fell)?
>
> Yep, the tires didn't work when the track started to dry. What's
> interesting is
> that Edwards ran a soft rear and the others (DP, VR and NH) had mediums
> but they
> still had complaints about the compound being to soft.
>
> > Edwards - not going backwards is a big plus. Well done.
>
> Yeah, I was glad to see that.
>
> > Rossi - hmmmm. Looked like a normal racer with issues. Maybe
> > the reign is truly over?
>
> His back tire was cooked, apparently.
>
> > West - that was cool until.......
>
> Let's hope that it wasn't a one-shot deal. I think he's proven to be a
> good racer
> in other classes so I think he'll continue to do well.
> > Speed channel. Wankers. I actually called the track PA announcer
> > at Miller to get him to strangle whoever was in charge. We're
> > watching the cool off lap of Miller Stuporbike instead of MotoGP!!!
> > His Griffy-ness said he'd get on it but didn't seem to really help.
> > And speaking of stuporbikes, the antiChrist pulls off another
> > semi miracle (from broken femur to jogging back for the restart
> > in 26 seconds) and
> >
> > Tommy Hayden - stick a fork in him and turn him over. He's
> > done.
>
> He's never been very good in Superbike, has he?
>
> --
> tanx,
> Howard

I think Muzzy is responsible for Tommy, he threw him out there on the Kaw
superbike following Chandler around and blew his confidence but good. I
have never seen him totally look like he did before Muzzy...
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Julian Bond

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Since: Jun 20, 2003
Posts: 702



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:48 am
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Paul B Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:31:43
>ummm oh
>yeah Rossi he got 4th.

Is this the first time ever (in any class) that Rossi has been off the
podium at Donington?

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
*** Just Say No To DRM ***
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Champ1

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Since: Jan 02, 2004
Posts: 4780



(Msg. 11) Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:45 pm
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:48:38 GMT, Julian Bond
wrote:

>Paul B Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:31:43
>>ummm oh
>>yeah Rossi he got 4th.
>
>Is this the first time ever (in any class) that Rossi has been off the
>podium at Donington?

I think it is.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
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Julian Bond

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Since: Jun 20, 2003
Posts: 702



(Msg. 12) Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:04 pm
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Champ Tue, 26 Jun 2007 14:45:40
> wrote:
>>Is this the first time ever (in any class) that Rossi has been off the
>>podium at Donington?
>
>I think it is.

1998. 250cc DNF

His first race win was 125 at Donington 1997. And he was in 125 in 1996
(DNF).

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
*** Just Say No To DRM ***
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Mark N

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Since: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 15



(Msg. 13) Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:41 pm
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sturd wrote:
> Champ notes:

> > I've been waiting for Stoner to make a mistake. Well, today was the
> > day for him to make it, and he didn't. In fact, he gave everyone else
> > a riding lesson, finishing 10 seconds clear at the end, I believe.
>
> Yep, I'm thinking he's the real deal now.

On of the great myths of contemporary MotoGP that has so many True
Believers is that line by Jerry the Baptist that bike racing is, "80%
rider and 20% bike". Bullsh*t, no one can win on anything but one of
the very best bikes running on some of the best tires (which is what
Jerry has always had, btw). Stoner has both of those now, so is
winning, but there are probably ten guys in the series who could be
winning on the right combination (and that's the right combination for
that particular guy - everyone's different). Rossi's been pretty much
in that position his whole career and look at what he's done. Hayden
managed to win the title last year even without his "perfect" bike;
give him that and he wins going away. Capirossi could have won last
year had he not gotten hurt, and his tires weren't the best at a lot
of tracks. Edwards was down last year, running on Rossi's rejects and
hand-me-downs, had a lower spec engine all year (according to Colin),
but when they needed him at Estoril and he was finally given the
"latest-spec" (according to Brivio), he had no problem staying with
Rossi. Gibernau finished 2nd in the championship two years in a row
when he fell into a factory Honda with the best tires after Katoh went
down. Even Tamada (who is not one of those ten guys) won two races on
a lease-spec Honda when his tires ended up better than the Michelins.
On and on.

> Hayden - dang boy, toss it two wet races in a row?

Yep, and it was the front washing out, his big problem with the
chassis so far. Seems like he was just pushing it, taking his chances
and riding through his problems, and got what will happen in those
circumstances.

> Pedrosa - maybe similar tire/setup choice as Hayden? That's
> why he went backwards (and Nicky fell)?

That was kind of weird, but I'd guess that when the tires started
going south he lost confidence in those conditions and backed off from
there.

> Edwards - not going backwards is a big plus. Well done.
>
> Rossi - hmmmm. Looked like a normal racer with issues. Maybe
> the reign is truly over?

Maybe he just doesn't have the best stuff anymore, and the various
defeats have cost him a bit of confidence. So what's the count? Only
three race wins in the last 15 races? Beaten to the line by Elias at
Estoril, crashes out at Valencia with the championship on the line
(and an 8-point lead), beaten on the last lap by Stoner at Catalunya,
fading and off the box at Donington, has been off the box SEVEN times
since his bike got fixed just over a year ago at Le Mans. I still
think he's the best overall, but how much of that is getting the right
stuff and building the confidence on a mountain of victories? Looked
pretty ordinary compared to his much-maligned teammate yesterday, and
Colin says racing is 90% from the neck up.

> Speed channel. Wankers. I actually called the track PA announcer
> at Miller to get him to strangle whoever was in charge. We're
> watching the cool off lap of Miller Stuporbike instead of MotoGP!!!
> His Griffy-ness said he'd get on it but didn't seem to really help.
> And speaking of stuporbikes, the antiChrist pulls off another
> semi miracle (from broken femur to jogging back for the restart
> in 26 seconds) and

Regarding the coverage decisions, they were the right ones, no
question. Show the damned live race until conclusion, then show the
whole tape-delayed MotoGP race. If you're not at home and instead
taping (like me), too bad. Watch or tape MotoGP tomorrow night when
they replay it. I watched what I had, and then went to the MotoGP
website for the rest. But I'd be pissed as hell if 10 laps into the SB
race they said, "we interrupt this live broadcast to show you tape of
a race run 10 hours ago in the rain somewhere in Europe...".

As for Mladin, imagine what this group would be saying if that had
been done by EuroGod - "On the ground and out, then into the
ambulance, then ignoring the terrible pain while running back to the
pits in the searing heat for more! All the while Jerry and the boys
are feverishly working over the machine and performing the usual
miracles, then Vale manages to fight back toward the front from last
on the grid in only two laps! And he missed the podium by the
narrowest of margins, just another brilliant performance goes in the
book for the Legend of Rossi"...

But, no, it's Mat, so let's compare him to Yates lying down in the
track...

> Tommy Hayden - stick a fork in him and turn him over. He's
> done.

I think that's premature. Don't know what his problem was this
weekend, but he did lead the 2nd SB race early on and hung for quite a
while, so he's trying. I suspect he's got a lesser version of the
machine (as Yates said he had), and he hasn't quite figured it out
yet. Now if he struggles like that at Laguna and Mid-Ohio, two of his
best tracks, then that's a very bad sign...
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sturd

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Since: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 22



(Msg. 14) Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:04 pm
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Mark N wibbles:

> On of the great myths of contemporary MotoGP that has so many True
> Believers is that line by Jerry the Baptist that bike racing is, "80%
> rider and 20% bike". Bullsh*t, no one can win on anything but one of
> the very best bikes running on some of the best tires (which is what
> Jerry has always had, btw).

And be one of the very best riders with one of the very best teams.
Indeed, the best combination of all of those on that day that
that rider won. Stoner and team are now there.


> > Rossi - hmmmm. Looked like a normal racer with issues. Maybe
> > the reign is truly over?
>
> Maybe he just doesn't have the best stuff anymore,

You're dreaming if you believe that.


>. But I'd be pissed as hell

You start drinking before the race?


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
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Mark N

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Since: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 650



(Msg. 15) Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:15 pm
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sturd wrote:
> Mark N wibbles:
>
>> On of the great myths of contemporary MotoGP that has so many True
>> Believers is that line by Jerry the Baptist that bike racing is, "80%
>> rider and 20% bike". Bullsh*t, no one can win on anything but one of
>> the very best bikes running on some of the best tires (which is what
>> Jerry has always had, btw).

> And be one of the very best riders

Right, as I say there are likely at least ten guys who can win in
MotoGP, which certainly makes them among the top 15-20 riders in the
world. One of the very best riders.

with one of the very best teams.
> Indeed, the best combination of all of those on that day that
> that rider won. Stoner and team are now there.

Right, but the discussion has been more about Stoner than the team or
bike, if fact that's much of the point. And I think that's a bit
off-base; Stoner's doing great, but he doesn't do that without the best
bike on the best tires, and without both suiting his style.

>>> Rossi - hmmmm. Looked like a normal racer with issues. Maybe
>>> the reign is truly over?
>> Maybe he just doesn't have the best stuff anymore,

> You're dreaming if you believe that.

So you think Rossi's Yamaha is better than Stoner's Ducati? You think
Rossi's Michelins have been better than Stoner's Bridgestones?
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