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Since: Aug 19, 2007 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 46) Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: alt>motorcycles, others (more info?)
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"davidj92" <davidj92REMOVE DeleteThis @sigecom.net> wrote in message
news:f5SdnVZDYZQHE1XbnZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@sigecom.net...
> Zyp wrote:
> snip
> > The problem is an old one. Some road inductor(s) sensors pick up
> > bikes and some don't. The iron mass is what make the inductance
> > change.
>
> You're correct, the loop carries a frequency, mostly determined by the
loops
> geometrics. The detector will tune to the loop, if loop geometrics are
> within certain perimeters, and a frequency is set up in the loop. When a
> mass large enough to change the magnetic field around the loop wires to
> change enough to cause a shift in the frequency, the dectector will put in
a
> call to the controller.
>
>
> I don't think a magnet [unless is contains a considerable
> > amount of mass] helps much.
>
> In theory, if the mass and the magnetic field of the magnet are enough to
> influence the magnetic field of the loop then it could work. I agree with
> your assessment, I don't think a magnet by itself would work unless it
were
> very strong but it could cut down on the size of the mass needed for
> detection.
>
> I've heard from some riders who use
> > their side stand. The flip it out over the inductor loop in the
> > street and claim it helps.
>
> This could help also as it puts metal closer to the loop wires. Another
> thing that can help is if you can see the cut line in the street where the
> loop is, it usually has a tar filling creating a black line, try to stop
on
> top of the line just on the inside of the loop. The motorcycle's mass will
> have the best chance of causing detection there. The least likely place is
> in the middle of the loop.
>
> I don't know. I know that if I come
> > across a traffic light that doesn't respond in a resonable amount of
> > time [the law states 2 minutes] then I can presume the signal is
> > broke and go about my business.
>
> Most people do that here as well although I don't know what the law is.
> Sometimes the detector's sensitivity is set so high a loop won't pick up a
> bike. Or it can be set so low it will pick up a bicycle, which can cause
> detection from vehicles in adjacent lanes. Back when they were ticketing
> here the traffic engineer and I used to argue about some intersections.
The
> lanes were so narrow he didn't want the loop to pick up a motorcycle as it
> would detect in adjacent lanes. My feeling was I don't care, if it takes
the
> light going red in all directions so I can make a turn so be it. That
> feeling was shared by most riders here and I think that voice caused the
> police to stop ticketing when it was obvious the detection hadn't worked.
If
> you're stopped on a loop while cross-traffic is flowing and your lane
> doesn't get serviced when the light changes then it should be safe to
assume
> you weren't detected.
> Dave
>
Last weekend after leaving J&P cycle the group decided to fill up just down
the road a bit at BP Amoco, exit 54. The traffic light was not responding to
me rolling my tire on and off of the crack that gave indication of the loop
so I stomped on it. Then the light gave the hand for don't walk for the on
coming traffic, then,,,,,the fu*king thing stopped giving the don't walk and
stayed green for the on coming traffic. Of course we ran the light when it
was clear. We stopped at the new, new to us, bar called Scooters. I think it
was there last year too but I never stopped. Nice place but for no busier
than they were it took to long for us to get our drinks. I watched our
waitress walk around seeming to do nothing. My wife told me to calm down I
was ready to call her over and ask what the hold up was. Then when she got
us our drinks she said they had to brew the tea so all was ok then. But she
could have told us before we all was getting a tad pissy that was the hold
up.
--
Carl
I started out with nothing and
I just about have that paid for.
Remove one 9 to reply
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Nov 27, 2003 Posts: 15
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(Msg. 47) Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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My take on a light that doesn't change when I'm on my motorcycle is
this:
1. I'm riding a legal motor vehicle.
2. I expect lights to recongnize legal motor vehicles.
3. If the light sensor DOESN'T recognize me, that intersection light
is defective.
4. In the USA (at least) if you arrive at an intersection with
non-functioning traffic light, drivers are to treat it as a 4-way
stop.
5. I stop... I look, and when it's clear, I go.
I've never been pulled over or ticketed, but I can't see any flaw in
my logic.
James, Suzuki Intruder 1500, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Oct 01, 2006 Posts: 7
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(Msg. 48) Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"davidj92" <davidj92REMOVE RemoveThis @sigecom.net> wrote in message
news:f5SdnVZDYZQHE1XbnZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@sigecom.net...
> Zyp wrote:
> snip
>> The problem is an old one. Some road inductor(s) sensors pick up
>> bikes and some don't. The iron mass is what make the inductance
>> change.
>
> You're correct, the loop carries a frequency, mostly determined by the
> loops geometrics. The detector will tune to the loop, if loop geometrics
> are within certain perimeters, and a frequency is set up in the loop. When
> a mass large enough to change the magnetic field around the loop wires to
> change enough to cause a shift in the frequency, the dectector will put in
> a call to the controller.
>
It is *not* a magnetic field at all, but rather the free resonant frequency
of the loop.
When a large ferrous metal object comes close the coil will shift down in
frequency.
When a large NON ferrous metal (brass,aluminum) the freq will go UP in freq.
The shift is processed by an error amp on the loop detector card and sent to
the
controller as a "Call" for that lane/phase. Some controllers need to see a
constant
"Call", others will "Lock" the call and handle it after the background cycle
expires.
In other words, unless the "Magnet" is the size of a KIA sedan..it wont help
at all. >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Aug 18, 2007 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 49) Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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RainLover wrote:
> My take on a light that doesn't change when I'm on my motorcycle is
> this:
>
> 1. I'm riding a legal motor vehicle.
>
> 2. I expect lights to recongnize legal motor vehicles.
>
> 3. If the light sensor DOESN'T recognize me, that intersection light
> is defective.
>
> 4. In the USA (at least) if you arrive at an intersection with
> non-functioning traffic light, drivers are to treat it as a 4-way
> stop.
>
> 5. I stop... I look, and when it's clear, I go.
>
>
> I've never been pulled over or ticketed, but I can't see any flaw in
> my logic.
>
> James, Suzuki Intruder 1500, Port Orchard, Washington, USA, Earth
Yup - lol
--
Zyp >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Sep 12, 2005 Posts: 59
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(Msg. 50) Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Porgy Tirebiter wrote:
snip
> It is *not* a magnetic field at all, but rather the free resonant
> frequency of the loop.
The loop has a magnetic field around the wires that, in part, determines the
frequency the loop will pass. When the magnetic field is changed enough to
cause an "error" the detector will initiate a call.
All your other statements are correct. We can get even more detailed but I
thought we were talking in general operations rather than specifics.
> When a large ferrous metal object comes close the coil will shift
> down in frequency.
> When a large NON ferrous metal (brass,aluminum) the freq will go UP
> in freq. The shift is processed by an error amp on the loop detector
> card and sent to the
> controller as a "Call" for that lane/phase. Some controllers need to
> see a constant
> "Call", others will "Lock" the call and handle it after the
> background cycle expires.
>
> In other words, unless the "Magnet" is the size of a KIA sedan..it
> wont help at all.
The only way to determine that with any certainty is to try it. Your details
of the sequence of events in the call to a phase will not prove or disprove
that. >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Aug 19, 2007 Posts: 11
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(Msg. 51) Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Jan 03, 2007 Posts: 59
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(Msg. 52) Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Since: Sep 12, 2005 Posts: 59
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(Msg. 53) Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Fred W wrote:
> Carl wrote:
>> Just for the hell of it I did a search on the subject, how does a
>> traffic light work?
>>
>> http://www.howstuffworks.com/question234.htm
>
> Which led me to this page:
>
> http://www.signalsorcerer.com/get_a_green_light.html
Both are partially correct, although the last link is trying to sell
something that's why they focus on metal. A factor they mention in the
howstuffworks site is the core of an inductor. The indunctance of the loop
can change if a core with enough significance comes over the loops
electromagnetic field. That's another factor and consideration that shows
the mass moving over the loop does not have to be magnetic.
A better simple explanation is here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indicator_loop
and here
http://www.motivation-tc.co.uk/loop.htm
Note the metion of the sensitivity and frequency setting of the detector.
When we installed loops we used a coil of copper wire on a plywood board,
that matched certain perimeters needed for the loop size and shape, to test
the loops reaction before we covered it with asphalt or rubber. We had
different sizes for different size loops. On a low reacting loop we'd drive
a vehicle on top of it to check the loops operation before sealing in the
roadway.
Dave >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Aug 25, 2007 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 54) Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Zyp wrote:
> davidj92 wrote:
>> McWideGlide wrote:
>> snip
>>> I wonder if a magnet of that strength would set a good nail up for
>>> the rear tire?
>> That's definitely possible.
>> I screwed up when I jumped in this thread and missed the original post
>> selling magnets. I'm not endorsing the magnet gizmo in any way and
>> when I tried to check out the magnet on the link in the post it tried
>> to do some crazy stuff to my puter. My spam blocker kicked in, my
>> pop-up blocker kicked in and an install gizmo tried to kick in
>> causing my anti-virus blocker to kick in.
>> If you've got a couple old speakers with a magnet of any size it
>> could help detection without being strong enough to pull junk under
>> your bike. Dave
>
> The problem is an old one. Some road inductor(s) sensors pick up bikes and
> some don't. The iron mass is what make the inductance change. I don't
> think a magnet [unless is contains a considerable amount of mass] helps
> much. I've heard from some riders who use their side stand. The flip it
> out over the inductor loop in the street and claim it helps. I don't know.
> I know that if I come across a traffic light that doesn't respond in a
> resonable amount of time [the law states 2 minutes] then I can presume the
> signal is broke and go about my business.
>
What about that white strobe in the middle of the new red lights? Is
that scanning for traffic? >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Aug 25, 2007 Posts: 2
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(Msg. 55) Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 2:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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davidj92 wrote:
> Zyp wrote:
> snip
>> The problem is an old one. Some road inductor(s) sensors pick up
>> bikes and some don't. The iron mass is what make the inductance
>> change.
>
> You're correct, the loop carries a frequency, mostly determined by the loops
> geometrics. The detector will tune to the loop, if loop geometrics are
> within certain perimeters, and a frequency is set up in the loop. When a
> mass large enough to change the magnetic field around the loop wires to
> change enough to cause a shift in the frequency, the dectector will put in a
> call to the controller.
>
>
> I don't think a magnet [unless is contains a considerable
>> amount of mass] helps much.
>
> In theory, if the mass and the magnetic field of the magnet are enough to
> influence the magnetic field of the loop then it could work. I agree with
> your assessment, I don't think a magnet by itself would work unless it were
> very strong but it could cut down on the size of the mass needed for
> detection.
>
> I've heard from some riders who use
>> their side stand. The flip it out over the inductor loop in the
>> street and claim it helps.
>
> This could help also as it puts metal closer to the loop wires. Another
> thing that can help is if you can see the cut line in the street where the
> loop is, it usually has a tar filling creating a black line, try to stop on
> top of the line just on the inside of the loop. The motorcycle's mass will
> have the best chance of causing detection there. The least likely place is
> in the middle of the loop.
>
> I don't know. I know that if I come
>> across a traffic light that doesn't respond in a resonable amount of
>> time [the law states 2 minutes] then I can presume the signal is
>> broke and go about my business.
>
> Most people do that here as well although I don't know what the law is.
> Sometimes the detector's sensitivity is set so high a loop won't pick up a
> bike. Or it can be set so low it will pick up a bicycle, which can cause
> detection from vehicles in adjacent lanes. Back when they were ticketing
> here the traffic engineer and I used to argue about some intersections. The
> lanes were so narrow he didn't want the loop to pick up a motorcycle as it
> would detect in adjacent lanes. My feeling was I don't care, if it takes the
> light going red in all directions so I can make a turn so be it. That
> feeling was shared by most riders here and I think that voice caused the
> police to stop ticketing when it was obvious the detection hadn't worked. If
> you're stopped on a loop while cross-traffic is flowing and your lane
> doesn't get serviced when the light changes then it should be safe to assume
> you weren't detected.
> Dave
>
>
We now they have cameras and strobes (in addition to or instead of I
don't know) to detect vehicles. Especailly the new installations. >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Jul 24, 2006 Posts: 76
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(Msg. 56) Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Punjab The Sailor Man wrote:
> What about that white strobe in the middle of the new red lights? Is
> that scanning for traffic?
Nope, that's just to bring attention to the fact that the light is RED.
Around here (upstate NY), you see them mostly in rural traffic lights.
It's merely a xenon strobe bulb across the red lens. Or a strip of
bright LEDs. (On the newer LED replacement traffic lights)
--
"Outback" Jon - KC2BNE
outback_jon.TakeThisOut@ver.no.sp.am.izon.net
AMD Opteron 146 (@2.  and 6.1 GHz of other AMD power...
http://folding.stanford.edu - got folding? Team 48435
2006 ZG1000A Concours "Blueline" COG# 7385 CDA# 0157
1980 CB750F SuperSport "CoolerKing" >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 7
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(Msg. 57) Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:27 am
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: alt>motorcycles, others (more info?)
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On Aug 27, 8:01 am, Fred W <malt_ho....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>- Show quoted text -
>
> > Yeah, the red light cameras don't photograph the rear where the plate
> > is....
>
> Good point. Red light cameras won't work on bikes at all unless they
> simultaneously take a photo of the front and rear.
>
> --
> -Fred W- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
One of many reasons to ride a bike. >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 143
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(Msg. 58) Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:09 am
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Bike Guy Joe" <jetstarblue DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1188390438.213867.67020@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 27, 8:01 am, Fred W <malt_ho... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >>- Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Yeah, the red light cameras don't photograph the rear where the plate
>> > is....
>>
>> Good point. Red light cameras won't work on bikes at all unless they
>> simultaneously take a photo of the front and rear.
>>
>> --
>> -Fred W- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> One of many reasons to ride a bike.
>
>
Please explain to me how a red-light camera knows sickles from cages. >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Jan 03, 2007 Posts: 59
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(Msg. 59) Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:16 am
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Seth Hammond wrote:
> "Bike Guy Joe" <jetstarblue RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1188390438.213867.67020@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>
>>On Aug 27, 8:01 am, Fred W <malt_ho... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>>Yeah, the red light cameras don't photograph the rear where the plate
>>>>is....
>>>
>>>Good point. Red light cameras won't work on bikes at all unless they
>>>simultaneously take a photo of the front and rear.
>>>
>>>--
>>>-Fred W- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>>- Show quoted text -
>>
>>One of many reasons to ride a bike.
>>
>>
>
>
> Please explain to me how a red-light camera knows sickles from cages.
>
>
>
Obviously it doesn't. But I don't have a license plate mounted on the
front of my bike (which is the view the camera captures), do you?
--
-Fred W >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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Since: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 143
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(Msg. 60) Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:16 am
Post subject: Re: Traffic Light Gadgets [Login to view extended thread Info.] Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Fred W" <malt_hound.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:O4WdnRNp-9BBEEjbnZ2dnUVZ_vXinZ2d@comcast.com...
> Seth Hammond wrote:
>> "Bike Guy Joe" <jetstarblue.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1188390438.213867.67020@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>On Aug 27, 8:01 am, Fred W <malt_ho....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>>>
>>>>>Yeah, the red light cameras don't photograph the rear where the plate
>>>>>is....
>>>>
>>>>Good point. Red light cameras won't work on bikes at all unless they
>>>>simultaneously take a photo of the front and rear.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>-Fred W- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>One of many reasons to ride a bike.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Please explain to me how a red-light camera knows sickles from cages.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Obviously it doesn't. But I don't have a license plate mounted on the
> front of my bike (which is the view the camera captures), do you?
>
> --
Arizona has only rear plates, but no shortage of red-light cameras. A brief
series of pix are taken. No one is exempted, everyone is busted.... >> Stay informed about: Traffic Light Gadgets |
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