Tire Question

"Pierre" wrote in message

 > I was riding tonight on my Kawa zx-12 and the bike felt loose. At first I
 > thought the frame was broken but when I stopped I noticed the tire was
flat.
 > I figure I ran like this for approx 2 miles. Turns out it's a slow leak.
 >
 > My question is, should I get the tired repaired or get a new one? I am
 > worried about internal tire damage. I don't want to have it blow on me at
 > 280 km/h. I a fix safe? The tire is otherwise brand new I just put it
on.
 >
 > Thanks in advance for any help.
 >
 >
 > Pierre
 >

I doubt if you rode on a "flat" tire for 2 miles. It was probably low and
when you stopped it was very low. If you have ever tried to move along on a
really flat tie, it is very difficult (bumping along at 2- 3 mi. per hr.)
until the tire bead separates from the rim. Then you stop.
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

 >I don't want to have it blow on me at 280 km/h.

If you're routinely riding 175 mph on public roads, a blow out will be the
least of your worries...
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

In article , Pierre wrote:

 > I was riding tonight on my Kawa zx-12 and the bike felt loose. At first I
 > thought the frame was broken but when I stopped I noticed the tire was flat.
 > I figure I ran like this for approx 2 miles. Turns out it's a slow leak.
 >
 > My question is, should I get the tired repaired or get a new one? I am
 > worried about internal tire damage. I don't want to have it blow on me at
 > 280 km/h. I a fix safe? The tire is otherwise brand new I just put it on.

The tread might start seperating before you see the cracks on the
outside. Nothing like the joy of massive tire failure. Its like riding
an unbalanced washing machine full of bricks at 150mph. Something will
give. Someone riding the machine will receive.

Heat damage will kill a tire. At those speeds, the rubber flexing may
generate enough heat within a minute to cook itself into seperating in
the form of small gas pockets. The main part of the tread may be woven
kevlar, but the rubber carcass may be detatched in invisible random
patches. Your next episode of unstability may be revealed when this
assembly flings apart when the mess hardens due to the degraded and
burned condition of the once soft, sticky compound.

--
Why drive a car when you can ride a bike?
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://dattaway.org" target="_blank">http://dattaway.org</a>
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Pierre wrote:
 > I was riding tonight on my Kawa zx-12 and the bike felt loose. At first I
 > thought the frame was broken but when I stopped I noticed the tire was flat.
 > I figure I ran like this for approx 2 miles. Turns out it's a slow leak.
 >
 > My question is, should I get the tired repaired or get a new one?

No...
Running a low tire 2 miles builds some extra heat but no where near
enough heat as running it all day on hot asphalt...

Repair it...
Your looking at a plug that went 5,000 miles... not in moderation mind
you... it endured the rigors of two track days and one H40 race at 148
mph... is that fast enough to pass mustard???
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://home.earthlink.net/~netters2/lalovey/MeZ3TirePlug.JPG" target="_blank">http://home.earthlink.net/~netters2/lalovey/MeZ3TirePlug.JPG</a>

I employed this plug which installs from the inside out... P/N 3002...
$9.95...
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.stopngo.com/motorcycle.html]" target="_blank">http://www.stopngo.com/motorcycle.html]</a>

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Lean & Mean it... the extended warranty in every corner of your life...
Have a wheelie NICE day...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/" target="_blank">http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/</a>
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:24:23 -0700, Larry xlax Lovisone
wrote:

 >
 >
 >Pierre wrote:
  >> I was riding tonight on my Kawa zx-12 and the bike felt loose. At first I
  >> thought the frame was broken but when I stopped I noticed the tire was flat.
  >> I figure I ran like this for approx 2 miles. Turns out it's a slow leak.
  >>
  >> My question is, should I get the tired repaired or get a new one?


 >No...
 >Running a low tire 2 miles builds some extra heat but no where near
 >enough heat as running it all day on hot asphalt...

Now how exactly do you know this? How low was his tire? How fast was
he travelling on it? Do you have a background in tire manufacturing
and engineering that allows you to make such a statement?


 >Repair it...
 >Your looking at a plug that went 5,000 miles... not in moderation mind
 >you... it endured the rigors of two track days and one H40 race at 148
 >mph... is that fast enough to pass mustard???

One of these days your 5,000 mile plug advice is going to get someone
killed. Maybe XX out of XXX times the plug will be fine, but what
about the one time it DOES FAIL and the guy is doing 150+ mph? What
if it's this guy and he took your advice?

Plenty of people went a full 30K to 40K on Firestone SUV tires....does
that make any difference to the small amount of people that died
because of them? And a possible cause was from running them under
inflated which brings us back to your above advice on running on a low
tire.

It's not about the plug coming out and leaking air. It's about that
puncture area being weakened. You don't know if that object did any
structural damage to a belt or cord and I doubt the typical grease
monkey patching it will know either. And then there's the
*possibility* of damage to the tire from running it low.

Patching/plugging a standard car tire is one thing. A normal car
doesn't typically hit triple digit speeds and if it does blow out, no
big deal, pull over and put on a spare or call AAA.

Blow out a tire on a bike, even at a low speed, and you have the
possibilty of death.

You should seriously consider contacting Google and having your 5000
mile plug messages removed.

Just my paranoid 2¢

George

CX500 TURBO
CX650 TURBO










 >http://home.earthlink.net/~netters2/lalovey/MeZ3TirePlug.JPG
 >
 >I employed this plug which installs from the inside out... P/N 3002...
 >$9.95...
 >http://www.stopngo.com/motorcycle.html]
 >
 >Larry L
 >94 RC45 #2
 >Lean & Mean it... the extended warranty in every corner of your life...
 >Have a wheelie NICE day...
 >If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
 >V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
 >http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

"cxTurbo" wrote in message

 > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:24:23 -0700, Larry xlax Lovisone

 >
  > >
  > >
  > >Pierre wrote:
   > >> I was riding tonight on my Kawa zx-12 and the bike felt loose. At
first I
   > >> thought the frame was broken but when I stopped I noticed the tire was
flat.
   > >> I figure I ran like this for approx 2 miles. Turns out it's a slow
leak.
   > >>
   > >> My question is, should I get the tired repaired or get a new one?
 >
 >
  > >No...
  > >Running a low tire 2 miles builds some extra heat but no where near
  > >enough heat as running it all day on hot asphalt...
 >
 > Now how exactly do you know this? How low was his tire? How fast was
 > he travelling on it? Do you have a background in tire manufacturing
 > and engineering that allows you to make such a statement?
 >
 >
  > >Repair it...
  > >Your looking at a plug that went 5,000 miles... not in moderation mind
  > >you... it endured the rigors of two track days and one H40 race at 148
  > >mph... is that fast enough to pass mustard???
 >
 > One of these days your 5,000 mile plug advice is going to get someone
 > killed. Maybe XX out of XXX times the plug will be fine, but what
 > about the one time it DOES FAIL and the guy is doing 150+ mph? What
 > if it's this guy and he took your advice?
 >
Rag on Larry, and you'll find you have bitten a wooden leg. Lurk and
learn, he knows what he's talking about.

Reassembler
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:54:31 -1000, "Reassembler"
wrote:

[...]

  >> One of these days your 5,000 mile plug advice is going to get someone
  >> killed. Maybe XX out of XXX times the plug will be fine, but what
  >> about the one time it DOES FAIL and the guy is doing 150+ mph? What
  >> if it's this guy and he took your advice?
  >>
 > Rag on Larry, and you'll find you have bitten a wooden leg. Lurk and
 >learn, he knows what he's talking about.

Yeah but like any old patch eyed, wooden legged two wheel PIRATE,
Larry's prone to exaggeration / embellishment now and then. For
instance, I still have problems with his 6000 mile plus Rennsports and
with a track day thrown in there for good measure. Otherwise, the man's
a saint -

That said, I've also seen successful plugs, even those emergency
external types. But would I risk sustained speeds of >100 on one myself?
No way.

01 Sprint ST "RED"
Bob Nixon, Phoenix Az.
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

 > Just my paranoid 2¢
George... to know a paranoia spokesman... is to know how they tend to be
overheated... oversuspicious... overaggressive... grandiose and
apocalyptic in expression...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Lean & Mean it... the extended warranty in every corner of your life...
Have a wheelie NICE day...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/" target="_blank">http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/</a>
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

"cxTurbo" wrote in message

 > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:24:23 -0700, Larry xlax Lovisone

 >
  > >
  > >
  > >Pierre wrote:
   > >> I was riding tonight on my Kawa zx-12 and the bike felt loose. At first
I
   > >> thought the frame was broken but when I stopped I noticed the tire was
flat.
   > >> I figure I ran like this for approx 2 miles. Turns out it's a slow
leak.
   > >>
   > >> My question is, should I get the tired repaired or get a new one?
 >
 >
  > >No...
  > >Running a low tire 2 miles builds some extra heat but no where near
  > >enough heat as running it all day on hot asphalt...
 >
 > Now how exactly do you know this? How low was his tire? How fast was
 > he travelling on it? Do you have a background in tire manufacturing
 > and engineering that allows you to make such a statement?
 >

As it happens, I DO have a background in tire reinforcement materials. I am
not going to make any judgement on this particular
tire, but I can tell you that I wouldn't use this tire myself (and yes I
ride). Kevlar/Aramid is very prone to damage if run in compression and an
underinflated tire does exactly that. In my opinion it is much better to
run slightly over inflated than to risk ANY underinflation.
This is my opinion, do as you will.






 >
  > >Repair it...
  > >Your looking at a plug that went 5,000 miles... not in moderation mind
  > >you... it endured the rigors of two track days and one H40 race at 148
  > >mph... is that fast enough to pass mustard???
 >
 > One of these days your 5,000 mile plug advice is going to get someone
 > killed. Maybe XX out of XXX times the plug will be fine, but what
 > about the one time it DOES FAIL and the guy is doing 150+ mph? What
 > if it's this guy and he took your advice?
 >
 > Plenty of people went a full 30K to 40K on Firestone SUV tires....does
 > that make any difference to the small amount of people that died
 > because of them? And a possible cause was from running them under
 > inflated which brings us back to your above advice on running on a low
 > tire.
 >
 > It's not about the plug coming out and leaking air. It's about that
 > puncture area being weakened. You don't know if that object did any
 > structural damage to a belt or cord and I doubt the typical grease
 > monkey patching it will know either. And then there's the
 > *possibility* of damage to the tire from running it low.
 >
 > Patching/plugging a standard car tire is one thing. A normal car
 > doesn't typically hit triple digit speeds and if it does blow out, no
 > big deal, pull over and put on a spare or call AAA.
 >
 > Blow out a tire on a bike, even at a low speed, and you have the
 > possibilty of death.
 >
 > You should seriously consider contacting Google and having your 5000
 > mile plug messages removed.
 >
 > Just my paranoid 2¢
 >
 > George
 >
 > CX500 TURBO
 > CX650 TURBO
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
  > >http://home.earthlink.net/~netters2/lalovey/MeZ3TirePlug.JPG
  > >
  > >I employed this plug which installs from the inside out... P/N 3002...
  > >$9.95...
  > >http://www.stopngo.com/motorcycle.html]
  > >
  > >Larry L
  > >94 RC45 #2
  > >Lean & Mean it... the extended warranty in every corner of your life...
  > >Have a wheelie NICE day...
  > >If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
  > >V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
  > >http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
  > >
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:54:31 -1000, "Reassembler"
wrote:

 >


  >> On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:24:23 -0700, Larry xlax Lovisone

  >>
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >Pierre wrote:
   >> >> I was riding tonight on my Kawa zx-12 and the bike felt loose. At
 >first I
   >> >> thought the frame was broken but when I stopped I noticed the tire was
 >flat.
   >> >> I figure I ran like this for approx 2 miles. Turns out it's a slow
 >leak.
   >> >>
   >> >> My question is, should I get the tired repaired or get a new one?
  >>
  >>
   >> >No...
   >> >Running a low tire 2 miles builds some extra heat but no where near
   >> >enough heat as running it all day on hot asphalt...
  >>
  >> Now how exactly do you know this? How low was his tire? How fast was
  >> he travelling on it? Do you have a background in tire manufacturing
  >> and engineering that allows you to make such a statement?
  >>
  >>
   >> >Repair it...
   >> >Your looking at a plug that went 5,000 miles... not in moderation mind
   >> >you... it endured the rigors of two track days and one H40 race at 148
   >> >mph... is that fast enough to pass mustard???
  >>
  >> One of these days your 5,000 mile plug advice is going to get someone
  >> killed. Maybe XX out of XXX times the plug will be fine, but what
  >> about the one time it DOES FAIL and the guy is doing 150+ mph? What
  >> if it's this guy and he took your advice?
  >>
 > Rag on Larry, and you'll find you have bitten a wooden leg. Lurk and
 >learn, he knows what he's talking about.
 >
 >Reassembler

Oh of course...he's a **regular** around here so his word on any
subject is gospel compared to another person who doesn't live and
breath AMS 24/7.

How dare I disagree with (not rag on) a regular after he tells someone
to put a plug in a motorcycle tire that will do 175 mph.


George

CX500 TURBO
CX650 TURBO
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

"cxTurbo" wrote in message

 > On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 22:54:31 -1000, "Reassembler"

 >
  > >


   > >> On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 21:24:23 -0700, Larry xlax Lovisone

   > >>
   > >> >
   > >> >
   > >> >Pierre wrote:
   > >> >> I was riding tonight on my Kawa zx-12 and the bike felt loose. At
  > >first I
   > >> >> thought the frame was broken but when I stopped I noticed the tire
was
  > >flat.
   > >> >> I figure I ran like this for approx 2 miles. Turns out it's a slow
  > >leak.
   > >> >>
   > >> >> My question is, should I get the tired repaired or get a new one?
   > >>
   > >>
   > >> >No...
   > >> >Running a low tire 2 miles builds some extra heat but no where near
   > >> >enough heat as running it all day on hot asphalt...
   > >>
   > >> Now how exactly do you know this? How low was his tire? How fast was
   > >> he travelling on it? Do you have a background in tire manufacturing
   > >> and engineering that allows you to make such a statement?
   > >>
   > >>
   > >> >Repair it...
   > >> >Your looking at a plug that went 5,000 miles... not in moderation
mind
   > >> >you... it endured the rigors of two track days and one H40 race at
148
   > >> >mph... is that fast enough to pass mustard???
   > >>
   > >> One of these days your 5,000 mile plug advice is going to get someone
   > >> killed. Maybe XX out of XXX times the plug will be fine, but what
   > >> about the one time it DOES FAIL and the guy is doing 150+ mph? What
   > >> if it's this guy and he took your advice?
   > >>
  > > Rag on Larry, and you'll find you have bitten a wooden leg. Lurk and
  > >learn, he knows what he's talking about.
  > >
  > >Reassembler
 >
 > Oh of course...he's a **regular** around here so his word on any
 > subject is gospel compared to another person who doesn't live and
 > breath AMS 24/7.
 >
 > How dare I disagree with (not rag on) a regular after he tells someone
 > to put a plug in a motorcycle tire that will do 175 mph.
 >
 >
I'll listen to anyone who fabricates his own parts for a RC45, and
rides it everyday. You, OTOH, are just guessing.

Reassembler
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

A couple of tyre manufacturers (Avon for one, I think Pirelli too) are
offering free replacements if there is less than 1mm wear on their superbike
tyres.Might be worth checking out.

"Pierre" wrote in message

 > I was riding tonight on my Kawa zx-12 and the bike felt loose. At first I
 > thought the frame was broken but when I stopped I noticed the tire was
flat.
 > I figure I ran like this for approx 2 miles. Turns out it's a slow leak.
 >
 > My question is, should I get the tired repaired or get a new one? I am
 > worried about internal tire damage. I don't want to have it blow on me at
 > 280 km/h. I a fix safe? The tire is otherwise brand new I just put it
on.
 >
 > Thanks in advance for any help.
 >
 >
 > Pierre
 >
 >
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question 

I'd not be giving advice to someone who automatically thinks his frame is
broken as a possible cause of his bike's bad handling, instructions to dig
as hole let alone repair a superbike tyre Larry.From your posts on this
group you obviously have a high level of technical knowhow and competence,
and folks seem to respect that but there are so very many riders out there
who haven't the wit to perform such a repair, or to judge whether the repair
they have just made seems to have "taken".
 >> Stay informed about: Tire Question