Roger Lee to Race MotoGP at USGP

"j doll" wrote:
> Not so surprising when you think that even Tommy and Nick feel that Roger
> might be the best racer in the family...

I find it amusing that this story still has legs. I think it was Nicky
that admitted that this story was Tommy's idea, back when Rog was a
teenager and they wanted to help him land a decent AMA ride. If you
look at his history, he's had some race wins in SSport over the last
few years, but nothing like what Nicky had done by his age, and even
Tommy has a couple championships. All you have to do is watch the guy
and you can see he's not quite the racer Nicky is. The main thing I
see is a guy who is willing to extend farther than Tommy, but that has
led to him being the family record-holder on race crashes as well...
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 05:11:08 -0500, "j doll" <jdoll.TakeThisOut@jvlnet.com> wrote:

>"Fwoar" <d_lesslie.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:4680c4c8$0$1187$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...

>> Interesting that they chose Roger for a wildcard.

>Not so surprising when you think that even Tommy and Nick feel that Roger
>might be the best racer in the family...

Interesting. Given that track knowledge *does* seem to count a little
more than usual at Laguna, and that the Kawa is starting to look like
a resonably competitive bike, could we be on for a surprise result
here?

--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
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"Mark N" <menusbaum DeleteThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1182877750.402578.133960@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> "j doll" wrote:
>> Not so surprising when you think that even Tommy and Nick feel that Roger
>> might be the best racer in the family...
>
> I find it amusing that this story still has legs. I think it was Nicky
> that admitted that this story was Tommy's idea, back when Rog was a
> teenager and they wanted to help him land a decent AMA ride. If you
> look at his history, he's had some race wins in SSport over the last
> few years, but nothing like what Nicky had done by his age, and even
> Tommy has a couple championships. All you have to do is watch the guy
> and you can see he's not quite the racer Nicky is. The main thing I
> see is a guy who is willing to extend farther than Tommy, but that has
> led to him being the family record-holder on race crashes as well...

A story it maybe.
But one that was related to me a very long time ago, back when a factory
ride was still years away. Life in a box van, fibbing about their ages so
they could ride at a higher level.
I'm sure it was embelished when Roger started getting closer, but it wasn't
invented then...
Roger's lack of accomplishment is tied to his willingness to push the
limits. A nasty habit that he picked up riding with two older brothers,
where agressiveness sometimes paid off.
Crash often enough and sooner or later you get hurt.
How many seasons has Roger been hurt for a portion of the year? You don't
win championships that way...
>
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"j doll" wrote:
> "Mark N" wrote
> > I find it amusing that this story still has legs. I think it was Nicky
> > that admitted that this story was Tommy's idea, back when Rog was a
> > teenager and they wanted to help him land a decent AMA ride. If you
> > look at his history, he's had some race wins in SSport over the last
> > few years, but nothing like what Nicky had done by his age, and even
> > Tommy has a couple championships. All you have to do is watch the guy
> > and you can see he's not quite the racer Nicky is. The main thing I
> > see is a guy who is willing to extend farther than Tommy, but that has
> > led to him being the family record-holder on race crashes as well...
>
> A story it maybe.
> But one that was related to me a very long time ago, back when a factory
> ride was still years away. Life in a box van, fibbing about their ages so
> they could ride at a higher level.
> I'm sure it was embelished when Roger started getting closer, but it wasn't
> invented then...

I'm talking about prior to RL turning 16, before he was allowed to
race in the AMA, not later when he was in the series and trying to get
a full factory ride. At that point anyone in the series could see what
he had and didn't have.

> Roger's lack of accomplishment is tied to his willingness to push the
> limits. A nasty habit that he picked up riding with two older brothers,
> where agressiveness sometimes paid off.
> Crash often enough and sooner or later you get hurt.
> How many seasons has Roger been hurt for a portion of the year? You don't
> win championships that way...

Well, you've got to win races and get on the box to win championships
as well, and Rog never won a race when he was riding for Carruthers
and Erion, which is different than Nicky, who was already winning SS
races for Andrew/HyperCycle when he was 16 and won the 600SS
championship for Erion shortly after turning 18. Roger's first win was
for Kawasaki in SSport back in '04, when he was, what, 21? And I think
he's been racing in the AMA since he was 16, just like Nicky. In 2002
he finished 5th for Erion in SSport, but his best race finish was a
third place. His problems with injuries that might have cost him a
championship have mostly been since he's been at Kawasaki, I think.
 >> Stay informed about: Roger Lee to Race MotoGP at USGP 

On 27-Jun-2007, "j doll" <jdoll.DeleteThis@jvlnet.com> wrote:

> "Mark N" <menusbaum.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:1182877750.402578.133960@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> > "j doll" wrote:
> >> Not so surprising when you think that even Tommy and Nick feel that
> >> Roger
> >> might be the best racer in the family...
> >
> > I find it amusing that this story still has legs. I think it was Nicky
> > that admitted that this story was Tommy's idea, back when Rog was a
> > teenager and they wanted to help him land a decent AMA ride. If you
> > look at his history, he's had some race wins in SSport over the last
> > few years, but nothing like what Nicky had done by his age, and even
> > Tommy has a couple championships. All you have to do is watch the guy
> > and you can see he's not quite the racer Nicky is. The main thing I
> > see is a guy who is willing to extend farther than Tommy, but that has
> > led to him being the family record-holder on race crashes as well...
>
> A story it maybe.
> But one that was related to me a very long time ago, back when a factory
> ride was still years away. Life in a box van, fibbing about their ages so
> they could ride at a higher level.
> I'm sure it was embelished when Roger started getting closer, but it
> wasn't
> invented then...
> Roger's lack of accomplishment is tied to his willingness to push the
> limits. A nasty habit that he picked up riding with two older brothers,
> where agressiveness sometimes paid off.
> Crash often enough and sooner or later you get hurt.
> How many seasons has Roger been hurt for a portion of the year? You don't
> win championships that way...
> >

I think Roger's aggressive style can be traced back to racing with his
brothers in his yard at home. Several years ago
I heard one of the stories where the three were racing in the yard and Tommy
ran Roger into the side of this box van that was parked in their yard!

He supposedly came into the house saying "Mom, Tommy ran me into the van
again". It was still a sore sport then with Roger.<Grin>
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 19:23:57 GMT, Ron RemoveThis @Somewhere.com wrote:

>
>On 27-Jun-2007, "j doll" <jdoll RemoveThis @jvlnet.com> wrote:
>
>> "Mark N" <menusbaum RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:1182877750.402578.133960@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> > "j doll" wrote:
>> >> Not so surprising when you think that even Tommy and Nick feel that
>> >> Roger
>> >> might be the best racer in the family...
>> >
>> > I find it amusing that this story still has legs.
>>
>
> I think Roger's aggressive style can be traced back to racing with his
> brothers in his yard at home.

And I think Roger's somewhat more agressive style can be traced back
to the fact that he simply doesn't have the skill that Nick and Tom
have.

I also tend to believe he doesn't have the mental edge he needs to
succeed, and his columns on Soup don't do anything to persuade me
otherwise.
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"Dave" <no1 RemoveThis @home.com> wrote in message
news:m3t583d61qk171vd3vehcbs4b5tf4vkq1b@4ax.com...
> And I think Roger's somewhat more agressive style can be traced back
> to the fact that he simply doesn't have the skill that Nick and Tom
> have.

At this point, I tend to agree..
>
> I also tend to believe he doesn't have the mental edge he needs to
> succeed, and his columns on Soup don't do anything to persuade me
> otherwise.

I dunno about that, his down home thing can skew one's perception, though I
wouldn't go as far to say you're wrong...
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 20:03:32 -0400, "T3" <nothere.TakeThisOut@nowhere.net> wrote:

>
>"Dave" <no1.TakeThisOut@home.com> wrote in message
>news:m3t583d61qk171vd3vehcbs4b5tf4vkq1b@4ax.com...
>> And I think Roger's somewhat more agressive style can be traced back
>> to the fact that he simply doesn't have the skill that Nick and Tom
>> have.
>
>At this point, I tend to agree..
>>
>> I also tend to believe he doesn't have the mental edge he needs to
>> succeed, and his columns on Soup don't do anything to persuade me
>> otherwise.
>
>I dunno about that, his down home thing can skew one's perception, though I
>wouldn't go as far to say you're wrong...

I'm not talking entirely about the "down home" appearance, although a
slightly better command of his native language wouldn't hurt the
perception. Tommy is only a little better in that regard but I've
been impressed with his methodical approach and ability to strategize.
Hell, if it were all about intellectual appearance then Russell would
have never won a race! I might not go so far as to say Roger is
"dumb" (well, maybe I would:) but my admittedly distant impression is
that he doesn't have the smart racing sense or drive that the other
top riders do. He's doing it all on talent so far, and we've already
agreed he doesn't have what Tom and Nick do in that regard.

Maybe Roger can take creative writing lessons from E-Boz!
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"Dave" <no1.RemoveThis@home.com> wrote in message
news:taf683l986a62trctk31ivfanh0a6cqndt@4ax.com...

>>I dunno about that, his down home thing can skew one's perception, though
>>I
>>wouldn't go as far to say you're wrong...
>
> I'm not talking entirely about the "down home" appearance, although a
> slightly better command of his native language wouldn't hurt the
> perception. Tommy is only a little better in that regard but I've
> been impressed with his methodical approach and ability to strategize.

I try hard not to be critical of one's up-bringing, or where they
geographically originate, *however,* I have always had a tough time with the
Kentucky/Tennessee thing, always! I use to know Earl pretty well and saw all
his kids race DT years ago, but for the life of me I still have probs
getting by that twang, go figure..

> Hell, if it were all about intellectual appearance then Russell would
> have never won a race!

Now there's another guy that it didn't surprise me when someone broke his
jaw, trouble is, if you actually talked to him for more than a minute you'll
find he's really a pretty nice guy..


I might not go so far as to say Roger is
> "dumb" (well, maybe I would:) but my admittedly distant impression is
> that he doesn't have the smart racing sense or drive that the other
> top riders do. He's doing it all on talent so far, and we've already
> agreed he doesn't have what Tom and Nick do in that regard.

What I've seen, both on the tube and in person has not impressed me, even
though I realize he's running two classes, but to me, he looks sloppy on a
SB and especially so last Sunday..
>
> Maybe Roger can take creative writing lessons from E-Boz!

It's been my experience that very few racer's are gonna wax eloquent, Mat
does fairly well in that regard, but he's so full of himself, or is trying
to spin one angle or another any message tends to get lost, at least on me..
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On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 13:42:36 -0400, "T3" <nothere DeleteThis @nowhere.net> wrote:

>> Maybe Roger can take creative writing lessons from E-Boz!
>
>It's been my experience that very few racer's are gonna wax eloquent, Mat
>does fairly well in that regard, but he's so full of himself, or is trying
>to spin one angle or another any message tends to get lost, at least on me..

Did you read Eric's article on Soup? It was surprisingly good.

Mat always has a motive when he writes. He's always trying to push
someone's buttons for that mental edge. Sometimes it's obvious and
sometimes it's subtle. He's a fierce competitor.

It's understandable that Mat would be pushing his new training
company, but do you like how he's putting the bug into the ears of the
owners and sponsors that perhaps in the future ALL riders should be
REQUIRED to go through a training program just like, oh say, HIS
program prior to being hired on as a rider? Just to see that they
have what it takes?

Sounds okay on the surface, I guess, but when you think about it
historically it's not necessarily the most fit guy wins. Sure, riders
at the factory and semi-factory level should be committed to training
and being fit. That's part of what they're paid for. But do they
need to be ultra-super-uber-fit? Does that separate the winners from
the losers? Matt and his company sound like they want to take fitness
to the extremes. Is Toseland leading the championship simply because
he's "the most fit rider in the paddock"? I doubt it. Why is Matt
trailing even though being a founder of the company almost ensures
that he's more fit than Ben? There's more to it than that. Being fit
is important but let's be honest, Matt is drumming up business.
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"Dave" <no1.DeleteThis@home.com> wrote in message
news:vgn883d2k2jcdpsa9qahph7gcg815nu4j6@4ax.com...
> Did you read Eric's article on Soup? It was surprisingly good.

I don't recall it if I did, but I'll look for it when I get the chance. Even
though they tend to come off a little flaky on the tube, both the Boz boy's
are pretty sharp, Ben seems exude the Calcool thing versus Eric's deer in
the headlights, however you veiw them it's fairly safe to say they march to
a different drummer..

>
> Mat always has a motive when he writes. He's always trying to push
> someone's buttons for that mental edge. Sometimes it's obvious and
> sometimes it's subtle. He's a fierce competitor.
>
> It's understandable that Mat would be pushing his new training
> company, but do you like how he's putting the bug into the ears of the
> owners and sponsors that perhaps in the future ALL riders should be
> REQUIRED to go through a training program just like, oh say, HIS
> program prior to being hired on as a rider? Just to see that they
> have what it takes?

I suppose some people get off on his incessant self promotion, though I find
it curious why he feels the need, after all, he's won more sh*t than just
about everyone else combined. It's one thing to be the consummate
competitor, quite another to bore the hell out of everyone with extraneous
BS such as "his" training regimen, at least it is to me. Heh, is the Mladidn
diet plan, or Mat meditation next? One can only hope..
>
> Sounds okay on the surface, I guess, but when you think about it
> historically it's not necessarily the most fit guy wins. Sure, riders
> at the factory and semi-factory level should be committed to training
> and being fit. That's part of what they're paid for. But do they
> need to be ultra-super-uber-fit? Does that separate the winners from
> the losers? Matt and his company sound like they want to take fitness
> to the extremes. Is Toseland leading the championship simply because
> he's "the most fit rider in the paddock"? I doubt it. Why is Matt
> trailing even though being a founder of the company almost ensures
> that he's more fit than Ben? There's more to it than that. Being fit
> is important but let's be honest, Matt is drumming up business.

Of course he is, though in his defense we don't know what kind of deal Adams
cut with him to get the column, given the space he got one has to think that
was a part of it...
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On 29-Jun-2007, "T3" <nothere.DeleteThis@nowhere.net> wrote:

> "Dave" <no1.DeleteThis@home.com> wrote in message
> news:vgn883d2k2jcdpsa9qahph7gcg815nu4j6@4ax.com...
> > Mat always has a motive when he writes. He's always trying to push
> > someone's buttons for that mental edge. Sometimes it's obvious and
> > sometimes it's subtle. He's a fierce competitor.
> >
> > It's understandable that Mat would be pushing his new training
> > company, but do you like how he's putting the bug into the ears of the
> > owners and sponsors that perhaps in the future ALL riders should be
> > REQUIRED to go through a training program just like, oh say, HIS
> > program prior to being hired on as a rider? Just to see that they
> > have what it takes?
>
> I suppose some people get off on his incessant self promotion, though I
> find
> it curious why he feels the need, after all, he's won more sh*t than just
> about everyone else combined. It's one thing to be the consummate
> competitor, quite another to bore the hell out of everyone with extraneous
>
> BS such as "his" training regimen, at least it is to me. Heh, is the
> Mladidn
> diet plan, or Mat meditation next? One can only hope..

Kind of a change from the old "Daytona Ocean Deck regimen" though, isn't
it?<Grin>
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