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Mark N

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Since: Mar 05, 2005
Posts: 650



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:59 am
Post subject: Race weekend musing...
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Started on Friday with practice at Sears, the major moment being Spies
crash at the end of qualifying, a nasty spill into the chicane. What was
clear all weekend was that Spies was fastest going into the chicane,
amazing that he'd get through there smoothly every time (well, almost,
and he ran through the dirt late in yesterday's race).

The guys that are stamping their mark on this AMA season both won
on Saturday, Mladin in SB and Hayes in FX, and then repeated yesterday.
For Hayes, the FX race was closer than expected, something happening out
of view that put Gobert in the lead late. The SSport race ended with a
red flag and Hacking out front, but the win went to Hayes, who had led
from the start, then got passed by the two Kawis and looked to be
fading, then fought back and ended up leading at the right time. That's
the kind of stuff that happens when it's your time, and it certainly
appears it's Josh's time. He leads FX by 19 points and SSport by 12.

For Mladin as well, and he put on a crushing exhibition this weekend,
something that has to have put a dent in Spies' confidence. In the first
race Spies error in turn one pretty much ended things, but because Mat
took advantage and didn't give it up. Sunday was a closer duel the
margin three seconds give or take most of the way, but Ben just couldn't
cut into it. Points are tied now, but it's Mat with all the momentum,
and we'll see if Ben can react at the two fastest tracks on the
schedule, Elkhart and Miller coming up next.

The rest really had no chance, although the Hondas came
closest. The fight for third yesterday appeared over early, Zemke
gapping the rest, but then DiSalvo, RL Hayden and Duhamel took turns
trying to make it interesting. E-Boz faded from the start, DiSalvo
charged early (after looking like a podium early on Saturday) but then
faded as well, so the Yamahas aren't quite there yet, and a terrible
weekend for Bostrom. For Kawasaki it wasn't much better, the loss in
SSport, the horrible race for Hacking in SB yesterday (eventually back
with the MVs), Rog's SB motor grenading while he was flying in 4th.

Jordan had a horrible weekend as well, with Holden crashing several
times over the weekend including out of the SStock race, Yates crashing
out of 2nd in that one and further problems had him 11th and 14th in the
SB races. Back to earth for Mike. Not a bad weekend for the Brits,
though, as Davies looked very good in SStock, not quite able to hold the
top three but always there, and Ellison took a pair of top tens in SB
and top privateer. Maybe a new source of immigrants for the AMA? You
know, give us your tired, your weak, your yearning to be paid...

Got up early to watch GP, and this weekend had me thinking it's all
about tires these days. Bridgestone swept the podium at the home GP for
Michelin, their only excuse being that it was a wet race. Well, sort of,
as we once again got to see guys tip-toeing around on slicks on an
increasingly damp track until guys started skittling off, the signal for
everyone to run for the pits and their full rains. Makes for good
television, including the homeboys stretching and leading (briefly,
before crashing), but is it really safe? Of course not. At least the
crashers didn't take anyone else out, although Rossi did run off course
being in the wrong place at the wrong time. And then we see the most
bizarre race for a polesitter that I can remember, Edwards fading
immediately and incredibly rapidly from the start, no grip, then in for
his rains too early, in later for another switch (To what? On what?
Rules say he either had to change tire type, or switch on his existing
bike), and lapped three times in the end. Rossi also got bamboozled by
the new tire rule once again this weekend, although he made a brave go
of it at the start.

So the two rules changes regarding tires dominated this weekend, just as
they seem to be doing this season, although as usual somewhat under the
surface, most of the talk being about the new 800cc Super250s, Ducati
and Stoner. Casey, the right man in the right place at the right time,
moves on toward a possible championship with another podium. Rossi falls
21 points behind after being off the podium once again, and is now deep
in the coldest streak of his career, only 2 wins in the last 11 races,
his worst since his first days in 500, when he won 1 of the first 12
races in 2000. Nick "I could have been Casey" Hayden had his chance to
get a little something going end in bitter defeat in the gravel, and now
has fallen out of the top ten in points (had a discussion with Earl at
Sears yesterday, confirmed pretty much what one has been hearing - just
more emphatically. Much more).

Pedrosa had his best wet race and is within shouting distance, 40 points
back, and Melandri's first podium has him a point behind Dani, With the
Suzuki guys in 5th and 6th, those four are really the only guys still in
it. But Pedrosa and especially Rossi have to live with what Michelin can
manage these days, and Melandri the same with his non-factory Honda.
Realistically it seems to be down to Stoner and Rossi already, with
Pedrosa the only viable alternative. Last year at this point there were
five riders within 18 points of the lead (and Rossi wasn't among them).
And how much of that is down to the rules changes? A shadow grows over
the series. But the tire factories are saving money, and the
championship is down to four 125/250 guys, so they got what they wanted,
I guess...

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Champ1

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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:16 am
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On Mon, 21 May 2007 22:08:18 -0700, Mark N
<menusbaum.TakeThisOut@NYETSPAMearthlink.net> wrote:

>Speaking of all that, did you notice Puig's reaction after Hayden's
>crash yesterday? He bolts over to the pitboard and ripped off the
>information on Hayden, his unsuppressed glee barely concealed under his
>maniacal intensity.

I saw those pictures, but unlike you I didn't see any "unsuppressed
glee".
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

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Julian Bond

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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:10 am
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Greg Campbell <ggeonerdd DeleteThis @ccoxx.nnett> Mon, 21 May 2007 23:14:11
>Mark N wrote:
>> Makes you think about what Hayden is up against in that camp, Puig
>>always working the HRC guys for favors, pressing for certain
>>developments, working the Repsol connection against HRC and Hayden,
>>etc. Scary stuff.
>
>I dunnow about the whole 'grand conspiracy' plot. Maybe.

Sounds like Hayden's already got himself beat. So where's Pete Benson in
all this? And why do the HRC press releases about their problems and
solutions all talk about Hayden and not Pedrosa? Honda are throwing new
bits at Hayden just as fast as new bits at Pedrosa. It's not like Honda
aren't embarrassed by the #1 bike so far back.

I figure we keep looking at Repsol-Honda as if it's one team. But really
it's two teams that just happen to work in adjacent garages and share
the same sponsor.

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Mark N

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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:13 am
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Julian Bond wrote:
> Greg Campbell
>> Mark N wrote:
>>> Makes you think about what Hayden is up against in that camp, Puig
>>> always working the HRC guys for favors, pressing for certain
>>> developments, working the Repsol connection against HRC and Hayden,
>>> etc. Scary stuff.
>>
>> I dunnow about the whole 'grand conspiracy' plot. Maybe.

> Sounds like Hayden's already got himself beat. So where's Pete Benson in
> all this? And why do the HRC press releases about their problems and
> solutions all talk about Hayden and not Pedrosa? Honda are throwing new
> bits at Hayden just as fast as new bits at Pedrosa. It's not like Honda
> aren't embarrassed by the #1 bike so far back.

Here's one of the things HRC's Horiike said in China, from Cycle News
this week: "...He revealed they are working on both larger bodywork and
chassis modifications to help Pedrosa's teammate, their defending world
champion Nicky Hayden, adapt to the tiny new bike... But they had
already made a different fairing nose with bulkier "shoulders" for
Hayden, and were testing new bodywork aimed at improving aerodynamics
for better speed... Horiike could give no delivery date for chassis
modifications for Hayden. 'I don't know in detail. Mr. Okuma [RC212V
project leader] has said he has no time to make a completely new one for
each rider, I think."

He denies the Dani-bike thing, and says the bike was designed not for
any one rider but was dictated by "raw physics", and reiterated that the
minimalist bodywork was for quicker side-to-side transitions. But when
you think back to Honda's statements about "compact riders for the
compact bikes of the future" in late 2005, it's pretty clear what way
they were going with their bike design.

> I figure we keep looking at Repsol-Honda as if it's one team. But really
> it's two teams that just happen to work in adjacent garages and share
> the same sponsor.

Yeah, you keep saying that, but what does that mean? What you're saying
is that the world champion at best gets "separate but equal" treatment
compared to his teammate, and in the larger picture maybe not even that,
given that their basic requirements are apparently so different. Has
Rossi ever faced this situation? Of course not.
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:07 pm
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"Mark N" <menusbaum RemoveThis @NYETSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6pWdneUZQr9e58_bnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@giganews.com...
> No, I didn't toss that one out, having already blown it once when I very
> briefly talked to Nick at Fontana. Anyway, Earl was working the family tee
> shirt shop in the vendors' area, so I asked him if Nicky was okay (torn
> cartilage in the ribcage, nothing broken), and got him going on the
> current situation - Nicky needing a good result for his confidence right
> now and talked about how hard he's worked on his rain riding, so that
> crash being such a blow, then the problem with the new bikes, which he
> referred to being like 125s and never mind 250s, that "they should have
> made them 1200s instead of taking away 200cc", how Nicky was having to
> learn how to ride all over again, always referring to the ex-250 riders as
> "those little guys", saying every 15 pounds equals one horsepower, trying
> to describe how little Pedrosa is by saying "his feet are only this big!"
> while holding his fingers 6-7 inches apart, and then he went off on the
> bike's bodywork and Nick's problems with that. After that I just didn't
> have the heart to bring up the Ducati contract...

Interesting, but ISTR it's somewhere closer to 8lbs. per pony, though
whatever, it's still significant. He say anything about little Gillum, with
that family being so very close that had to have hit home pretty hard?
Even though I completely understand and agree, him bitching about little
guys is sorta' ironic, at 6'4" it's like the pot, kettle thing to me, that
said, I'm not sure Dani even qualifies as a midget, more like a dwarf..

>
> Speaking of all that, did you notice Puig's reaction after Hayden's crash
> yesterday? He bolts over to the pitboard and ripped off the information on
> Hayden, his unsuppressed glee barely concealed under his maniacal
> intensity. Makes you think about what Hayden is up against in that camp,
> Puig always working the HRC guys for favors, pressing for certain
> developments, working the Repsol connection against HRC and Hayden, etc.
> Scary stuff.

To be honest, I didn't watch much at all after seeing the weather, I was
more interested in Sears anyway,(redhead too;-) but if she lets me I'll
check it out this evening on the replay..

Ya' know, it's hard not to get the feeling that Hayden's place in the Repsol
Honda scheme of things was more to palcate USHonda and much less for him to
be sucessful, or get a real shot. You can build a fairly clear picture now
that so many little things are finally coming to light and whether one
agrees, or not, it's hard not to say that;
1. The fundamental way HRC is being run is vastly different now that the old
man is gone and
2. Hayden should have said ciao last year and taken the Duc deal.

To me, the questions are why it is, and why he didn't, though I doubt
answers to either will be forthcoming any time soon, if ever..

>
>> Let's see, 44 degrees F and rain. Hmm, what to do? Hey, let's race
>> one-off prototype motorcycles! Yeah, that's the ticket... NOT!
>
> You forgot about doing it on slicks...

Yeah and I still don't get it, prolly never will either...
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:18 pm
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"Julian Bond" <julian_bond RemoveThis @voidstar.com> wrote in message
news:OGrOwTAlApUGFAih@jblaptop.voidstar.com...
> Ah. MotoGP as Star Wars. So it's not Luke and Obi Wan. or Luke and Yoda.
> It's the dark side. Vader and Sidious.

Obi Wan and Luke might have been Erv and Hayden, Puig and Dani are more
like the Emperor and a Jawa!
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Mark N

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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:58 pm
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T3 wrote:
> "Julian Bond" wrote
>> Ah. MotoGP as Star Wars. So it's not Luke and Obi Wan. or Luke and Yoda.
>> It's the dark side. Vader and Sidious.

> Obi Wan and Luke might have been Erv and Hayden, Puig and Dani are more
> like the Emperor and a Jawa!

What they really remind me of is an ultra-tiny female gymnast and
one of those overbeariing ex-commie coaches...
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Mark N

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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 6:54 am
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Julian Bond alters reality:
> Champ sees what he wants
>> Someone wibbled
>>
>>> Speaking of all that, did you notice Puig's reaction after Hayden's
>>> crash yesterday? He bolts over to the pitboard and ripped off the
>>> information on Hayden, his unsuppressed glee barely concealed under his
>>> maniacal intensity.

>> I saw those pictures, but unlike you I didn't see any "unsuppressed
>> glee".

> There's no denying Puig's intensity. You can also argue that he was just
> doing his job and doing it well. Dani P was skating close to the edge
> trying to stay ahead of a closing Hayden. With Hayden out, Hoffman some
> way behind and Stoner some way ahead he could back off and just bring it
> home. So it was important to get that next pit signal correct. Not too
> surprising then that Puig reacted with speed.

One could argue that - except that Hayden was actually AHEAD of Pedrosa
and Dani was closing on him, less than a second behind. In fact Dani
probably had a great view of Nick going down, and hardly needed his pit
board to know the change in his situation. And Puig certainly knew that,
so I see it as a very revealing, totally emotional reaction.
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Julian Bond

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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 11:43 am
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Champ <news.TakeThisOut@champ.org.uk> Tue, 22 May 2007 09:43:30
>On Mon, 21 May 2007 22:08:18 -0700, Someone wibbled
>
>>Speaking of all that, did you notice Puig's reaction after Hayden's
>>crash yesterday? He bolts over to the pitboard and ripped off the
>>information on Hayden, his unsuppressed glee barely concealed under his
>>maniacal intensity.
>
>I saw those pictures, but unlike you I didn't see any "unsuppressed
>glee".

There's no denying Puig's intensity. You can also argue that he was just
doing his job and doing it well. Dani P was skating close to the edge
trying to stay ahead of a closing Hayden. With Hayden out, Hoffman some
way behind and Stoner some way ahead he could back off and just bring it
home. So it was important to get that next pit signal correct. Not too
surprising then that Puig reacted with speed.

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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:59 pm
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"Mark N" <menusbaum.DeleteThis@NYETSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:edKdnd4CO7bj2snbnZ2dnUVZ_v6tnZ2d@giganews.com...
> One could argue that - except that Hayden was actually AHEAD of Pedrosa
> and Dani was closing on him, less than a second behind. In fact Dani
> probably had a great view of Nick going down, and hardly needed his pit
> board to know the change in his situation. And Puig certainly knew that,
> so I see it as a very revealing, totally emotional reaction.


After further review, it's hard not to see that, for whatever reason, he was
excited that Hayden was down and done...
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:54 am
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T3 wrote:

> The thing that gets
> me is the direction Honda has taken with the dwarf thing, if GP is the
> testing, or proving grounds for new tech and ideas it would almost seem self
> defeating throwing most your resources behind an anomaly such as Pedrosa is.
> They know damn well the major advantages of a little rider just as the horse
> racing industry does, but unless I've missed something fairly big, horses
> and motorcycles really have only races in common.

Yeah, in horse racing they equalize rider weight, even with the little
guys Wink

In racing everybody wants
> an advantage, that's a given, but using a dwarf would seem to skew any
> information you might acquire, at least to me and that doesn't even take
> tires into the issue.
> So, one has to look at the motivations that made them choose their current
> direction.
> 1. Did they want, more than anything else, just to beat Rossi and think that
> only a dwarf could do it? Maybe, remember he did dis them pretty good
> and you know how those "most honorable" Mofo's are.

I don't really think they're fixated on Rossi, I don't think this Cult
of the Individual goes very far in corporate boardrooms. Losing to
Yamaha might be quite different. But I really think it's the same old
thing at Honda - they want to do it their way, and want to prove that
their way is better, at least to themselves.

> 2. Was it because Pedrosa is better than sliced bread, the new "greatest of
> all time" and the future of racing?
> I'm thinkin' a big no on that, though I'd bet real money there are some here
> that truly believe otherwise.

I'm not so certain about that. While I doubt they are fixated on even
their own riders, I do think they believe he's their best chance, with
the rules the way they are. I also think they know that Repsol thinks
that, and you have to work with your wallet-toting partner.

> 3. Is someone else footing the bill for all this?
> Don't think so and even if someone was able and willing it's hard to imagine
> Honda allowing themselves to be used.

I don't think there's any doubt that Repsol has real power when it comes
to rider selection. We've seen that with Criville, Gibernau, Barros,
Pedrosa. When they extended their contract in 2005 they made a big deal
about the contract not including a rider veto for Repsol, strongly
suggesting that was a change. But that was a two-year extension signed
right after Dani signed his two-year deal, so...

> 4. Is their apparent move to little guys part of some grand scheme for Nips
> to dominate the series?
> Could be and given the Japs make the majority of the machinery involved
> maybe they feel a Nip rider should ride it and if anyone hasn't noticed,
> they've got a whole country full of little guys like Dani boi.

I think it's more likely that they see what sort of riders get developed
within GP, and probably believe in that source for MotoGP riders.
Since the departure of Rothmans and the end of the American/Australian
dirt/SB-sourced era, the factory team has hired Criville, Okada, T. Aoki
(just on the twin), Gibernau, Rossi, Ukawa, Hayden, Barros, Biaggi,
Pedrosa. So all GP guys except Hayden and Aoki. This "compact
bike/rider" thing plays into that, as 250 only produces very small
riders these days, it's hardly just Dani-Boy. And Horiike denies that
Honda ever builds bikes for a specific riders anymore, they learned
their lesson on that 20 years ago. Maybe yes, maybe no.

> 5. Or is it some weird combination of the above?
> I dunno, but it is somewhat fascinating to ponder. One thing for sure and as
> much as a lot of folks in the racing game disliked the old man's ways of
> getting in and getting out of some series they still respected him, but I
> seriously doubt he would've taken HRC down their current path. But like I
> said earlier, we, more than likely, will never know the whole story, one
> thing fairly consistent about the movers and shakers in racing, they usually
> take most of their secret deals to the graveyard when they go...

It's corporate decisionmaking, and you never know what drives it if
you're not on the inside. But it seems like this jockey stuff dovetails
nicely with the concept that it's the bike that really matters, and the
rider is just something you're required to put on top of it. I think
even that is mostly just a stereotype of Honda thinking, though.
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:14 am
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"Mark N" <menusbaum RemoveThis @NYETSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bdGdnSqRdd28OsjbnZ2dnUVZ_uygnZ2d@giganews.com...
> It's corporate decisionmaking, and you never know what drives it if you're
> not on the inside. But it seems like this jockey stuff dovetails nicely
> with the concept that it's the bike that really matters, and the rider is
> just something you're required to put on top of it. I think even that is
> mostly just a stereotype of Honda thinking, though.

But you see that was my point, Honda-san used HRC as his private racing toy
and by design there wasn't much corporate decision making involved, but I
guess now that he's gone things are decided a little differently...
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 5:02 pm
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"Mark N" <menusbaum.RemoveThis@NYETSPAMearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:bdGdnSqRdd28OsjbnZ2dnUVZ_uygnZ2d@giganews.com...

On another note, did you happen to catch the SSport race on Speed? 20, or so
minutes into the hour broadcast the race hadn't started, Wow!
Anyway, even though we(Jamie too) were cheated by the red flag it was still
one of the better races I've seen on the tube in quite some time. A lot of
hard, clean, no quarter given racing up front. As our good friend Mr. Bond
would say, a cracker.(whatever that means)
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:15 am
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T3 <spambait.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> Thu, 24 May 2007 10:20:14
>Somebody wibbled:
>
>>Loris is about done at Ducati,
>> and even if Hayden didn't get that, Hopper might and that would open up a
>> spot at American-friendly Suzuki.

I reckon if Loris retired, that spot would go to an Italian. Which means
Melandri.

>The thing that gets
>me is the direction Honda has taken with the dwarf thing

What exactly is it that Honda have done to the machine to make it
"Dwarf-Friendly"? The only fundamental thing I can point at is the size
of the front fairing. You would think this was fixable with some time in
a wind tunnel.

There's a story going around (possibly coming from the Yamaha camp) that
their problems with knife edge setup and either front and/or rear end
grip is that they've gone too far with mass centralisation and they've
raised and moved forward the engine and hence the CoG. This produces too
much weight transfer under braking, forcing harder spring rates leading
to chatter. Hayden is supposed to have asked them to build a bike with
this year's engine and last year's chassis but it won't fit. Seems to me
we've heard this before somewhere. Like Yamaha last year. If the bike is
sensitive and unforgiving to setup then you'd expect very different
reactions from different sized riders as rider weight position is a
major factor in race bikes. That's what we're hearing although finding
concensus is pretty hard. It's not clear that Pedrosa, Nakano, Elias
have got the same problems or Hayden, Checa or Melandri somewhere in the
middle. The one thing every Honda rider is missing is power but this is
made worse if corner exit is compromised by weight transfer problems.

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(Msg. 15) Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 9:20 am
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T3 wrote:
> "Mark N" wrote
>> It's corporate decisionmaking, and you never know what drives it if you're
>> not on the inside. But it seems like this jockey stuff dovetails nicely
>> with the concept that it's the bike that really matters, and the rider is
>> just something you're required to put on top of it. I think even that is
>> mostly just a stereotype of Honda thinking, though.

> But you see that was my point, Honda-san used HRC as his private racing toy
> and by design there wasn't much corporate decision making involved, but I
> guess now that he's gone things are decided a little differently...

I have no idea, the man retired in 1973 and has been dead for 16 years,
so racing was much different when he ran things, so much so that it's
almost impossible to compare. In the time that I've followed bike racing
closely, Honda has seemed to maintain a certain character of approach
that has been reasonably consistent. They seem to want to do things
differently, from the oval-piston NR500 to the NS500 triple to the
radical first NSR to their single-crank NSRs that followed, including
the first big-bang, to the V5 RCV. On the street and in SB it was their
series of V4s. They seem interested in those engineering exercises, and
they also seem interested in taking on things outside of their core,
like a dirttrack twin in America to a V-twin in WSB.

In terms of the racing, I think that old "Honda comes, Honda wins. Honda
loses, Honda leaves." thing is long gone, if it ever really applied.
They have been a steadfast supported of GP, building bikes for all
classes and more in MotoGP than they'd like. I also think they
understand that to always dominate there hurts the series, and therefore
hurts its value to them. So I think they have done things that haven't
always increased their chances of winning.

Ducati might not care that a rules issue allowed them to dominate WSB
more than was healthy for the series, but I don't think Honda feels the
same. Of course, Ducati's very survival is probably much more dependent
on racing success. So Ducati came into GP abandoning their traditional
twin configuration but didn't adopt anything radically different than
they already understood, and they totally ignored the unofficial
horsepower cap as well. Although they were dominantly successful at the
start of MotoGP, I think Honda could have been even more dominant had
they chosen to be.

At the moment their problem mostly seems to be that they pretty much had
to make major changes to their motor, given the weight penalty put on
800cc five-cylinder engines. The others were able to shrink their
existing 990cc designs more effectively than Honda was able to redesign
theirs. The chassis, while very similar in spec to Hayden's Brno bike,
has apparently been effected by the placement of the new motor and the
change in center of gravity. This has resulted in handling problems,
particularly with larger or heavier riders. They're also down on power,
which effects the larger riders more as well. And it's said that they
have throttle control problems as well.

Given these problems and obvious design intent like the minimalist
bodywork, it seems Honda has put all its eggs in Pedrosa's basket,
whether or not they really intended to, to this extent. Given the need
to play catch-up, the guys on the satellite teams are mostly being
ignored, while development impacts Repsol only. Given the points
situation and the strengths and weaknesses of the bike and its
character, one would absolutely expect that Honda would become focused
mostly on Pedrosa, if they haven't already.

I also believe the weight thing is material in their thinking on this.
Back before the weight minimum on 500s was significantly increased in
1991 Honda built their NSR down closer to the old minimum, some 10 kilos
lighter than the Yamaha YZR in '90. Then there was the NS triple before
that, and their experimentation with twins in building their 500
production racer in the late '90s, and talk of a twin or triple for the
800 era. That fours and fives had the same minimum under 990 rules must
have been THE reason they built the V5, and that a five now carries a
7.5kg/16.5lb penalty is at least one reason they changed to a four this
year. So they play to the rules, and with no restriction on rider weight
it stands to reason that they'd take advantage of that as much as they can.

Anyway, all that seems to reflect consistent threads in their approach
to racing, at least as far back as I go.
 >> Stay informed about: Race weekend musing... 
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