New R1/FZ1 4 valve engine tech questions? + other?'s

I thought Yamaha going back to the simpler 4-valve scheme was a winner
for several reasons. There's no real advantage to high-end breathing
UNLESS you push the red line up to above say 15K RPM on 250cc-sized
cylinders. Ferrari found out long ago with their Quatrovalva engine
they were really no hotter than similar four valve engines.

That said, down to the meat of my question. Did Yamaha finally, like
the rest of the Japanese big four mfg's design in counter balance
shafts on the R1 engine like they did with their larger 1300cc engine.
I ridden at least 4 5 valve R1's or FZ1'a and they all buzz like crazy
at certain low usable RPM's, unlike the GSXR 1000 that is smooth as
glass until the revs go over 7-8K RPM. Also the GSXR 1000 always had
the low end nailed in terms of torque especially compared to the R1
engine that felt like a 600 down at 3K RPM (do mostly to the 5 valve
thing).
BTW, the new FZ1 is now fuel injected. NO?

Next question? How many of the NEW 600 to 675's have counter rotating
balance shafts designed in? I know for a fact that the 675 triple has
a single, compared to twin, on a four-cylinder engine, counter balance
shafts. Also, the 90-degree twins don't need balance shafts as they
have perfect primary balance but they still vibrate like hell on
acceleration or deceleration. I don't know if a balance shaft would
help this effect or not? BTW, the smoothest of the 4 stroke V-twins
that I've ridden is the SV-650, bar none (duc 749, 999 SV-1000, TL, 60
degree prillers, VTRs' TL's or RC-51's). I haven't ridden a parallel
four-stroke twin in at least 25 years but nowadays they use twin
counter balance shafts so they're probably similar feeling as a 90-
degree twin.

Two stoke parallel twins act more like a non-counter balanced inline
4's in terms of vibration due to twice as many power stokes per
revolution. Yes a bit buzzy but down low instead of up high in the rev
band. Has anyone ridden an inline or V four two stroke for engine feel
reference? BTW, this poster feels all singles, balance shafts or not,
is unsuitable for anything but the dirt or racetrack. IOW, only
limited (to the dirt & back) street usability.

On May 28, 2:58 pm, Bob Nixon <bigrex2....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I thought Yamaha going back to the simpler 4-valve scheme was a winner
> for several reasons. There's no real advantage to high-end breathing
> UNLESS you push the red line up to above say 15K RPM on 250cc-sized
> cylinders. Ferrari found out long ago with their Quatrovalva engine
> they were really no hotter than similar four valve engines.

Quattro means 4.

> That said, down to the meat of my question. Did Yamaha finally, like
> the rest of the Japanese big four mfg's design in counter balance
> shafts on the R1 engine like they did with their larger 1300cc engine.

You would think such things would be on the mfgs specs, but no.
Suzuki does note the gear driven counterbalancer on their "features"
page. Yami makes no mention of such a thing.

> I ridden at least 4 5 valve R1's or FZ1'a and they all buzz like crazy
> at certain low usable RPM's, unlike the GSXR 1000 that is smooth as
> glass until the revs go over 7-8K RPM.

Prolly why Yami makes no mention of such a thing.

> Also the GSXR 1000 always had
> the low end nailed in terms of torque especially compared to the R1
> engine that felt like a 600 down at 3K RPM (do mostly to the 5 valve
> thing).
> BTW, the new FZ1 is now fuel injected. NO?

Yes, but it still uses the old Genesys engine.

> Next question? How many of the NEW 600 to 675's have counter rotating
> balance shafts designed in?

Not exactly a touring platform, so I doubt anyone would add the
weight.


> Also, the 90-degree twins don't need balance shafts as they
> have perfect primary balance

So do IL4s, it's just that their secondary vibes are at four times the
frequency of the twin's secondary vibes making the sensation more
pleasing to bees than humans.