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entwisi

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Since: May 07, 2004
Posts: 107



(Msg. 46) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:40 am
Post subject: Re: [ot] Posh loudspeaker cables [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: uk>rec>motorcycles (more info?)

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:40:44 +0000, Preston Kemp wrote:

 > darsy wrote:
 >
  >>
  >> entwisi wrote:
  >>
   >> > IMHO it is definitely worth doing. I have two systems, a Quad Valve
  >> system
   >> > running 2x Quad II monoblocks with a 22 pre-amp running out to ESL
  >> 57s
   >> > which is a beautiful rich and smooth sound. Wired with Monster
   >> > cable.
  >>
  >> <fx: nods>
  >>
  >> You really do need to hear Dire Straits as Mr. Knopfler intended.
 >
 > I've never really understood this HiFi thing. I've got a 20 year old
 > Pioneer stereo I bought in Boots, and a pair of even older National
 > Panasonic speakers I bought in a second hand shop. At around the same
 > time I bought it, a 'rich' mate bought a high-end separates system - I
 > forget which brands. Everyone who heard both systems thought mine
 > sounded far better.
 >
 > Then a couple of years ago another mate bought a fairly expensive amp,
 > CD player & speakers, recommended as a matched set by Richer Sounds. I
 > didn't think it sounded anywhere near as good as my ancient system, and
 > neither did he when he compared them.
 >
 > In both cases, the separates systems just seemed to be missing
 > something. They had excellent clarity, but couldn't produce what I'd
 > call a 'full' sound. I presume we all must be missing the point or
 > something, not being audiophiles. But I just prefer feeling like the
 > sound's filling the room with a rounded, matched range, rather than the
 > somewhat flatter sound the expensive kit seems to provide.
 >
 > Am I missing the point, or is it just down to personal taste?

depends on how it is set up. Speakers have certain preferences re
positioning in a room. Put a rich speaker in the corner of a room and it
will boom to high heaven and sound crap. Was his speakers in phase? that
would cancel out most of the richness of sound. Its not just about buying
some kit and sticking it in a room you know. That is why all good HiFi
shops will allow home trials. Everything about the room will affect the
sound. Furnishings or lack of them will change teh acoustics, Room shape
and size, positioning of the speakers. How are they supported? There are
lots of variables to play with.

Would you get a Gixer thou with fully adjustable suspension without
changing it for your requirements( Weight etc) and the type of riding you
do(track/road). Then we get into tyre choice, brake pad compounds, after
market components etc.



--
Entwisi
Honda XL1000V Varadero 'The Big V'
FBOTY#2003 PIT#3(KoTL)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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entwisi

External


Since: May 07, 2004
Posts: 107



(Msg. 47) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:40 am
Post subject: Re: [ot] Posh loudspeaker cables [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 02:15:58 -0800, darsy wrote:

 >
 > entwisi wrote:
 >
  >> IMHO it is definitely worth doing. I have two systems, a Quad Valve
 > system
  >> running 2x Quad II monoblocks with a 22 pre-amp running out to ESL
 > 57s
  >> which is a beautiful rich and smooth sound. Wired with Monster cable.
 >
  >>
  >> For everyday use I have another Quad Pre/Power combo running to floor
  >> standing Kefs. These are bi-wired( hopefully soon to be bi-amped as
 > I've
  >> got my eye on another quad amp) These are wired with cheapish Supra
 > Rondo
  >> as the cables must be hidden (SWMBO) and it means that I needed 25 m
 > of
  >> the stuff to go under the floor.
  >>
  >> Both driven as required from a Micromega leader CD using Monster
  >> Interconnects.
 >
 > <fx: nods>
 >
 > You really do need to hear Dire Straits as Mr. Knopfler intended.

I would guess that that means live? Or would you care to expand.

--
Entwisi
Honda XL1000V Varadero 'The Big V'
FBOTY#2003 PIT#3(KoTL)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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simonk

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Since: May 08, 2004
Posts: 166



(Msg. 48) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:40 am
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"darsy" <darsyx RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1100859358.166457.265750@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
 >
 > entwisi wrote:
 >
  > > Both driven as required from a Micromega leader CD using Monster
  > > Interconnects.
 >
 > <fx: nods>
 >
 > You really do need to hear Dire Straits as Mr. Knopfler intended.

<g>

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entwisi

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Since: May 07, 2004
Posts: 107



(Msg. 49) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:40 am
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On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:39:55 +0000, John Kendall wrote:

 > s
 >
 > Well speaking as someone who does BIG sound as a living. Don't bother
 > with expensive speaker cables. Get some 2.5mm2 flexible mains cable and
 > use that. (Or 4mm2 if you've got really long runs >100m say)

I guess BIG as in public? If so there is a BIG difference between what is
considered quality in PA work and what is quality in HiFi.

Anyone who has runs of more than 5m a side for a 'quality' hifi should
reconsider the positioning of their kit. I only run long cables for the
everyday listening stuff where ultimate performance isn't the target.

--
Entwisi
Honda XL1000V Varadero 'The Big V'
FBOTY#2003 PIT#3(KoTL)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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simonk

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Since: May 08, 2004
Posts: 166



(Msg. 50) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:40 am
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"Richard Wood" <news2 DeleteThis @ukrm.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cnjq4l$okv$1@server.localdomain...
 > "Eiron" <e1ron DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:305644F2t7incU2@uni-berlin.de...
  > > Mark Derbyshire wrote:
  > >
   > > > They say spend 20% of you're total outlay on cables
  > >
  > > "They" either have shares in a cable company
  > > or are fucking idiots.
 >
 > Why spend £20000 on the rest of the hifi system to ruin it by
 > spending £10 on the interconnects?
 >
 > Would you buy a £1 million F1 car and drive it on a £250 dirt track?

If I was that loaded, almost certainly yes

--
simonk<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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entwisi

External


Since: May 07, 2004
Posts: 107



(Msg. 51) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:40 am
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On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:24:47 +0000, Mark Derbyshire wrote:


 >
 > T&E used to be multi stranded which would be better than todays stuff
 > (single core)

If I remember the science behind it, LF requires large X sectional area
whereas HF prefers multistrand small X section. There is also reuirements
for phase correction as HF travels faster down the cable than LF


This may all be bollocks but if you have a cheap Hifi using T&E will
improve the LF sound. As this is normally the worst part of the spectrum
the system sounds 'better'

--
Entwisi
Honda XL1000V Varadero 'The Big V'
FBOTY#2003 PIT#3(KoTL)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Toby Augh-Nottoby

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Since: Oct 27, 2004
Posts: 33



(Msg. 52) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:40 am
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"Ben Blaney" <m7.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:9khrp0lf05s292648h3b0bghe45749qkeq@4ax.com...
 > tallbloke wrote:
 >
  >>"Richard Wood" <news2.TakeThisOut@ukrm.co.uk> wrote in news:cnjq4l$okv$1
  >>@server.localdomain:
  >>
   >>> Why spend 20000 on the rest of the hifi system
  >>
  >>Good question.
 >
 > Lord Guthrie, the ex-chairman of The Arts Council, had a 100k hi-fi.

ITYM Lord Gowrie. Quite a 'bon oeuf', actually, for an [admittedly ex-]
Tory cabinet minister. He had the honesty to walk because politics wasn't
paying enough.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Preston Kemp2

External


Since: Sep 08, 2004
Posts: 253



(Msg. 53) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:40 am
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entwisi wrote:

 > On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:40:44 +0000, Preston Kemp wrote:
 >
  > >
  > > Then a couple of years ago another mate bought a fairly expensive
  > > amp, CD player & speakers, recommended as a matched set by Richer
  > > Sounds. I didn't think it sounded anywhere near as good as my
  > > ancient system, and neither did he when he compared them.
  > >
  > > In both cases, the separates systems just seemed to be missing
  > > something. They had excellent clarity, but couldn't produce what I'd
  > > call a 'full' sound. I presume we all must be missing the point or
  > > something, not being audiophiles. But I just prefer feeling like the
  > > sound's filling the room with a rounded, matched range, rather than
  > > the somewhat flatter sound the expensive kit seems to provide.
  > >
  > > Am I missing the point, or is it just down to personal taste?
 >
 > depends on how it is set up. Speakers have certain preferences re
 > positioning in a room. Put a rich speaker in the corner of a room and
 > it will boom to high heaven and sound crap. Was his speakers in
 > phase?

They weren't in a parallel universe, if that's what you mean! In the
more recent case, they were floor standing speakers, positioned around
a foot away from the walls in the corners of the room. The distance
between them was approx. half the distance to the 'listening point' -
around 10' apart I guess. Mine were setup the same way at the time, but
in a smaller area; probably around 6' apart. Both rooms had similar
furnishings, with carpets rather than hard floors.

 > Would you get a Gixer thou with fully adjustable suspension without
 > changing it for your requirements( Weight etc) and the type of riding
 > you do(track/road).

No. But would you expect a 20 year old cheap commuter bike to
outperform a new Gixer Thou, no matter how badly the Gixer's suspension
was set up? I might have to spend a few hours in a shop listening room
& see if there's anything out there that makes me go 'Wow!'.


--
Preston.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.muddystuff.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.muddystuff.co.uk</a>
Off-road classifieds

'02 MV Senna '96 Tiger '79 Fantic 250
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mups4

External


Since: Sep 02, 2004
Posts: 117



(Msg. 54) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:40 am
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Ben Blaney m7.RemoveThis@privacy.net says...
 > tallbloke wrote:
 >
  > >"Richard Wood" <news2.RemoveThis@ukrm.co.uk> wrote in news:cnjq4l$okv$1
  > >@server.localdomain:
  > >
   > >> Why spend 20000 on the rest of the hifi system
  > >
  > >Good question.
 >
 > Lord Guthrie, the ex-chairman of The Arts Council, had a 100k hi-fi.

I don't have a HiFi at all. I can't say I really miss having one either.

--
Chris
CBR1000FL The Honda Fatblade
Yam RS200 Transcontinental Tourer<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Eiron

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Since: Oct 26, 2004
Posts: 540



(Msg. 55) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:40 am
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simonk wrote:

 > "Richard Wood" <news2 RemoveThis @ukrm.co.uk> wrote in message
 > news:cnjq4l$okv$1@server.localdomain...

  >>Would you buy a £1 million F1 car and drive it on a £250 dirt track?
 >
 >
 > If I was that loaded, almost certainly yes


Where can you buy a dirt track for £250 these days?

--
Eiron.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Preston Kemp2

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Since: Sep 08, 2004
Posts: 253



(Msg. 56) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:40 am
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Eiron wrote:

 > simonk wrote:
 >
  > > "Richard Wood" <news2.DeleteThis@ukrm.co.uk> wrote in message
  > > news:cnjq4l$okv$1@server.localdomain...
 >
   > > > Would you buy a £1 million F1 car and drive it on a £250 dirt
   > > > track?
  > >
  > >
  > > If I was that loaded, almost certainly yes
 >
 >
 > Where can you buy a dirt track for £250 these days?

Plenty of places. You can get land for around $1/acre in the States -
probably less in Oz.

--
Preston.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.muddystuff.co.uk" target="_blank">http://www.muddystuff.co.uk</a>
Off-road classifieds

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Kevin Seal4

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Since: May 16, 2004
Posts: 48



(Msg. 57) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:40 am
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In message <odcqp0ta7l6v54a51uf9a92580jlebvtnj.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>, Pip
<pip.TakeThisOut@garageOMITTHISpixies.co.uk> writes
 >
<snip>

 >That's me, that is. Bi-amped Arcam Alpha 10s, bi-wired with
 >multistrand silver wire. I found bi-wiring to make an audible
 >difference, certainly as far as 'headroom' and 'space' around
 >instruments goes; nearly as big a difference as bi-amping.
 >
 >I use the wire because the previous stuff which was about thick enough
 >to jumpstart a supertanker was too bass-heavy and I got a lot of boom
 >- so I found one that was described and reviewed as being drier in
 >sound. Works well, for about 30 quid a metre. Times four. Times
 >five metres ... fuck.

Hmmm.....
One could take the view that the bass you were getting with the other
cable was actually the true response, and that the cable you are now
using is acting as a High Pass filter.

--
Kevin Seal (at home)
FZS600 in Banana
{kevin at the hyphen seal hyphen house dot freeserve dot co dot uk}<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Ben11

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Since: May 07, 2004
Posts: 933



(Msg. 58) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:40 am
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On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:10:38 +0300, Ben Blaney <m7.DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote:

 >tallbloke wrote:
 >
  >>"Richard Wood" <news2.DeleteThis@ukrm.co.uk> wrote in news:cnjq4l$okv$1
  >>@server.localdomain:
  >>
   >>> Why spend 20000 on the rest of the hifi system
  >>
  >>Good question.
 >
 >Lord Guthrie, the ex-chairman of The Arts Council, had a 100k hi-fi.

I'd want a bloody nightclub attached to it for that money.
--
GSXR1000 DIAABTCOD#11 BOTAFOT#75
"We take these risks, not to escape from life,
but to prevent life escaping from us."
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bensales.com" target="_blank">http://www.bensales.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Switters3

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Since: May 07, 2004
Posts: 384



(Msg. 59) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:40 am
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On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:35:22 GMT, simonk <me7.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> allegedly
wrote:

 > Worth spending money on, or what? Magazines and websites are full of
 > reviews about cables and how important it is to audition them, but in
 > the back of my mind I can't help thinking that it's actually complete
 > bobbins, and that 13amp mains flex would do fine.
 >
 > discuss ...

There was a whole thing about this (well, actually it comes up time and
again), on the audio and DVD newsgroups. I recall seeing reference to a
chap who offered lots of money to anyone that could tell the difference
between super-expensive and run-of-the-mill cables, in a blind test. No-
one had collected.

I used some OFC stuff from Maplins, which wasn't too expensive, and
certainly nowhere near 20% of my system. I did spend money on reasonable
interconnects though.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Catman1

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Since: Feb 03, 2004
Posts: 135



(Msg. 60) Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:40 am
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Preston Kemp wrote:
<snip>
 >
 > Am I missing the point, or is it just down to personal taste?
 >
It can be personal taste, it can boil down to how well the stuff is
installed, set up, supported and even run in / warmed up. For example,
IME, Cyrus stuff sounds bloody awful out of the box. Some kit also works
better with different music.

What it really boils down to is what *you* like.
--
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Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
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