Phillip Island spoiler

On Oct 14, 5:52 pm, "Brutus" <se6... RemoveThis @teleport.com> wrote:
> "Bob Nixon" <bigrex2... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1192404170.610286.182670@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > 1st of all, job well done for Casey Stoner, Ducati & Austrailia. Next
> > my bitch is about the classes. When the 250's are less than 3 seconds
> > slower over the 800cc four strokes on a big track like Phillip Island
> > I smell a RAT in MGP. I believe the four dtrokes are obviously less
> > stable ( wobbles galor) and only about 20MPH faster on top speed
> > compared to the 2 stroke 250cc's.
>
> > The above in my mind is disgusting! If political corectness (4 stroke
> > only) is the reality for racing (and it doesn't make much sence from
> > an invirnmental standpoint) using 4 stroke that are over 3 times the
> > displacekment of the 250 2 strokes seems silly as all hell.
>
> > Why not let it all hang out and go to 500-600cc four strokes (turbo-or
> > supercharged) as the top MGP class? With todays technology we'd see
> > lighter open class bikes with less instability (wobbles that you never
> > see on the 250 class).
>
> Bob, the wobbles that you usually see in the MotoGP class are under hard acceleration which, of
> course, is much more violent then those wimpy 2-strokes
>

I know it, Brutus but with a smaller engine and having the ECU choose
how much boost to put out a 600cc four stroke could be made to be both
smaller=better handling and more controllable on the exits.


Bob nixon.
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

"Bob Nixon" <bigrex2005 RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192411618.247108.89320@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 14, 5:52 pm, "Brutus" <se6... RemoveThis @teleport.com> wrote:
> > "Bob Nixon" <bigrex2... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > news:1192404170.610286.182670@q5g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 1st of all, job well done for Casey Stoner, Ducati & Austrailia. Next
> > > my bitch is about the classes. When the 250's are less than 3 seconds
> > > slower over the 800cc four strokes on a big track like Phillip Island
> > > I smell a RAT in MGP. I believe the four dtrokes are obviously less
> > > stable ( wobbles galor) and only about 20MPH faster on top speed
> > > compared to the 2 stroke 250cc's.
> >
> > > The above in my mind is disgusting! If political corectness (4 stroke
> > > only) is the reality for racing (and it doesn't make much sence from
> > > an invirnmental standpoint) using 4 stroke that are over 3 times the
> > > displacekment of the 250 2 strokes seems silly as all hell.
> >
> > > Why not let it all hang out and go to 500-600cc four strokes (turbo-or
> > > supercharged) as the top MGP class? With todays technology we'd see
> > > lighter open class bikes with less instability (wobbles that you never
> > > see on the 250 class).
> >
> > Bob, the wobbles that you usually see in the MotoGP class are under hard acceleration which, of
> > course, is much more violent then those wimpy 2-strokes
> >
>
> I know it, Brutus but with a smaller engine and having the ECU choose
> how much boost to put out a 600cc four stroke could be made to be both
> smaller=better handling and more controllable on the exits.


The current MotoGP bikes already use very elaborate ECU control. When I was up at the Seattle
Motorcycle show this year, the MotoGP bike on display had sensors on both wheels and a number of
places on the engine/cooling system. They are using the ECU for traction controll and with the more
limited fuel capacity that is now allowed, managing fuel consumption. BTW a few bikes have run out
of fuel during the race this season and the Ducati's have run out a few times on the victory lap...

The GP racing classes all have minimum weight regulations. Reducing the capacity to 600cc from 800cc
would not enable much of a weight reduction....

One of the biggest wild card this season has been the effectiveness of the different tire choices
that the various teams have made, both in the commitment to (typically during a season) the
manufacturer and the compound hardness etc....
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

On Oct 14, 7:22 pm, Bob Nixon <bigrex2... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> 1st of all, job well done for Casey Stoner, Ducati & Austrailia. Next
> my bitch is about the classes. When the 250's are less than 3 seconds
> slower over the 800cc four strokes on a big track like Phillip Island
> I smell a RAT in MGP. I believe the four dtrokes are obviously less
> stable ( wobbles galor) and only about 20MPH faster on top speed
> compared to the 2 stroke 250cc's.
>
> The above in my mind is disgusting! If political corectness (4 stroke
> only) is the reality for racing (and it doesn't make much sence from
> an invirnmental standpoint) using 4 stroke that are over 3 times the
> displacekment of the 250 2 strokes seems silly as all hell.
>
> Why not let it all hang out and go to 500-600cc four strokes (turbo-or
> supercharged) as the top MGP class? With todays technology we'd see
> lighter open class bikes with less instability (wobbles that you never
> see on the 250 class).

I don't see political correctness at work in the switch from 2-strokes
to 4-strokes in the premier GP class. I see marketing. I think the
250cc 2-strokes will be replaced by a 600cc 4-stroke support class
within the next 2-3 years.

Manufacturers build and sell 4-stroke street bikes, therefore they
want their technological icons to be 4-strokes as well. Racing at the
factory level exists for only two reasons. Marketing and technology
testing. Neither of those are benefitted by racing motorcycles
radically different than those you sell on Monday.
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

On Oct 15, 11:09 am, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe>
wrote:
> tomor... RemoveThis @erols.com wrote:
> >Manufacturers build and sell 4-stroke street bikes, therefore they
> >want their technological icons to be 4-strokes as well. Racing at the
> >factory level exists for only two reasons. Marketing and technology
> >testing. Neither of those are benefitted by racing motorcycles
> >radically different than those you sell on Monday.
>
> And that inevitably leads to fat, egotistical posers riding machines they
> can't control on public roads and squids and stuntas and unfair law
> enforcement and all the evils of image selling...

What a jaded, cynical, pathologically depressing viewpoint.

I've been riding long enough to see that manufacturer involvement in
production-based (and now GP 4-stroke) racing has resulted in lighter,
stiffer, faster, smoother, quieter, better braking, better
accelerating, better cornering, motorcycles that sell for almost
exactly the same as their slower, heavier, less capable ancestors sold
for in inflation-adjusted dollars.

I, personally, find current model sportbikes to be vastly preferable
to those I rode 25 years ago, and I'm glad for the steady stream of
technological trickle-sown form the sport of roadracing.
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

<tomorrow.RemoveThis@erols.com> wrote in message
news:1192445544.944686.274610@v29g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 14, 7:22 pm, Bob Nixon <bigrex2....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 1st of all, job well done for Casey Stoner, Ducati & Austrailia. Next
>> my bitch is about the classes. When the 250's are less than 3 seconds
>> slower over the 800cc four strokes on a big track like Phillip Island
>> I smell a RAT in MGP. I believe the four dtrokes are obviously less
>> stable ( wobbles galor) and only about 20MPH faster on top speed
>> compared to the 2 stroke 250cc's.
>>
>> The above in my mind is disgusting! If political corectness (4 stroke
>> only) is the reality for racing (and it doesn't make much sence from
>> an invirnmental standpoint) using 4 stroke that are over 3 times the
>> displacekment of the 250 2 strokes seems silly as all hell.
>>
>> Why not let it all hang out and go to 500-600cc four strokes (turbo-or
>> supercharged) as the top MGP class? With todays technology we'd see
>> lighter open class bikes with less instability (wobbles that you never
>> see on the 250 class).
>
> I don't see political correctness at work in the switch from 2-strokes
> to 4-strokes in the premier GP class. I see marketing. I think the
> 250cc 2-strokes will be replaced by a 600cc 4-stroke support class
> within the next 2-3 years.
>
> Manufacturers build and sell 4-stroke street bikes, therefore they
> want their technological icons to be 4-strokes as well. Racing at the
> factory level exists for only two reasons. Marketing and technology
> testing. Neither of those are benefitted by racing motorcycles
> radically different than those you sell on Monday.
>

I disagree here. You can't go out and sell a GP2 car or an F1 car to a
normal consumer.
This is the highest class of Bike Racing; I vote for technology over sales.
Do you really think the horrible Toyota Racing F1 team has an effect on
their car sales?


--

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

On Oct 15, 11:30 am, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe>
wrote:
> tomor... DeleteThis @erols.com wrote:
> >I, personally, find current model sportbikes to be vastly preferable
> >to those I rode 25 years ago, and I'm glad for the steady stream of
> >technological trickle-sown form the sport of roadracing.
>
> And I personally find it disgusting that when I buy one of those technical
> marvels, I have to chain my pet werewolf to it to protect it from the 18 year
> old who wants to steal it. And when I want to responsibily and reasonably
> test the cornering ability, I get pulled over by cops who think I am riding
> it because I'm an 18 year squid.

I live where I don't really have to worry about people stealing my
bikes, as long as I take reasonable precautions. What a blessing!

Any current sportbike has cornering limits far too high for me to be
testing them on the public roads, cops or no cops. I like testing
the cornering limits of my Harley Street Glide. The cops smile and
wave.

Makes me all *happy* !!!
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

On Oct 15, 1:28 pm, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe>
wrote:

> Sheesh. I ride my mountain bike five miles to town just for the exercise. But
> I'm slowing down. I used to ride up to 32 miles a day a few years ago and got
> more of an adrenalin rush out of that than a sportbike ever gave me.

That's about the saddest thing I've ever seen you post.

My condolences to you.
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

On Oct 15, 10:09 am, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe>
wrote:
> tomor... DeleteThis @erols.com wrote:
> >Manufacturers build and sell 4-stroke street bikes, therefore they
> >want their technological icons to be 4-strokes as well. Racing at the
> >factory level exists for only two reasons. Marketing and technology
> >testing. Neither of those are benefitted by racing motorcycles
> >radically different than those you sell on Monday.
>
> And that inevitably leads to fat, egotistical posers riding machines they
> can't control on public roads and squids and stuntas and unfair law
> enforcement and all the evils of image selling...
>
> --
> Message posted via MotorcycleKB.comhttp://www.motorcyclekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/sportbike/200710/1

While this does bring pretty amazing technology into the hands of
minimally trained mortals, are you proposing some kind of national
regulations on sportbike sales?
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

On Oct 15, 2:40 pm, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe>
wrote:
> tomor....TakeThisOut@erols.com wrote:
> >That's about the saddest thing I've ever seen you post.
>
> >My condolences to you.
>
> Save your condolences, your joints are going to start causing you problems in
> the next 20 years.

I don't ride a race replica on the street. I ride a nice,
comfortable Harley Street Glide and a nice, comfortable Ducati
Monster. I already have bad ankles from multiple racing accidents,
hitting tire walls feet first, and I've had frost bite, so it's
important that I keep my hands warm, and I have arthritis in my left
hand, so I've installed a hydraulic clutch master/slave on the Harley
to help ease the pull on the race clutch springs I have in it.

There are numerous things I'd like to see the manufacturers do
differently with their current bikes, but I recognize market realities
when I see them, and I do my best to encourage bike companies to make
real world motorcycles by buying real world motorcycles.

A sportbike doesn't have to be a race replica, and I got more of an
adrenalin rush from my hopped up Yamaha SR500 thumper:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/32twpm

than I ever have from riding a pedal bike.
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

On Oct 15, 3:14 pm, Bob Nixon <bigrex2... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 9:13 am, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe>
> wrote:

> > Vaughn wrote:
> > >While this does bring pretty amazing technology into the hands of
> > >minimally trained mortals, are you proposing some kind of national
> > >regulations on sportbike sales?
>
> > I'd rather not see the government get any more involved in my life than it
> > already
> > is. But, the riding public needs basic transportation far more than they need
> > race bikes.
>
> > As it stands right now, the state of California has a list of motorcycles
> > that they will not register
> > for street use, no matter what the rider does to make them street legal. No
> > motorcycle with a model prefix
> > of YZ, TZ, RM, KX or CR will be registered. All except the TZ are motocross
> > bikes.
>
> > I think the prefixes GSXR, ZX, YZF and CBR should be added to the list.
>
> [...]
>
> I'm going along with Krusty here. I almost got run out of town on a
> rail "tarred and feathered" over in Reeky for even "jestliy"
> suggesting it but having had a modern race replica myself (capable of
> 185MPH) then having to spend $1000 to make it suitable for riding on
> the street and even then it was kind of a hoo...hum...bike for
> everyday riding compared to my Sprint ST or even the 2 little SV-650's
> I've owned. Hell even my old 1978 GS1000 UJM or 77 KZ-650 was more fun
> to ride around town.

I'm not a big fan of race replicas on the street, for many reasons
that I've iterated in the past. I don't own one; the last street-
registered race replica I owned was a 1992 Ducati 851 Superbike. I
think my S4Rs with the 998 Testastretta Desmo engine, the Ohlins
suspension, and the genteel eurosport riding position is perfect for
an around town bike.

But I don't think race replicas should be banned or relegated to
closed course use. I certainly don't buy the argument that doing so
would *help* club racing.

> Also to Tim, I used to be the guy who said use all your tires on the
> street (no chicken strips) but that leaves no margin for error or the
> unexpected bicyclist or SUV pulling a boat in your lane on twistie
> mountain roads. So I've changed my tune on this one and go maybe
> 8/10ths max in the twisties leaving about 1/2" margin on my tires.

I've never considered "using all your tires" to be a smart thing on
the public roads, and in 29.5 years of street riding, I never have
used all of my tires on the public road.

> Finally the trickle down technology effect is going to happen even if
> they outlawed GSXR's, etc from street registration. Just look at what
> we have now. Me on a one-year-old $5K OTD SV-650 with performance far
> exceeding my old 78 GS-1000 in most respects. The massive power
> overkill and taught suspension of the GSXR-1000K3 was to much for the
> street let alone the small track that I took it to on 4 track days
> where I ended up using only 2nd & 3rd gear on the small Firebird West
> track. The only track you could use all the power on was the FU'd up
> main track with a 5/8 mile straightaway (dragstrip) but the rest was
> back to 2nd & 3rd gears. The East track had a little longer straight
> but not long enough for anything over 4th gear.
>
> I hope I've made a convincing argument but if not, a friend sold his
> same year GSXR1000 because he almost lost his license with a DPS cop
> nabbing him at 130MPH (cop knocked it down to 111 cause' John was nice
> and mature about it) in desolate far North Eastern AZ. Now John has
> switched to almost all dirt and some commute riding on either his
> Suzuki DRZ400 or DL650.

A convincing argument for what? That no one *needs* a 180-hp race
replica on the street? I don't think anyone has ever claimed that
they did. That liter+ race replicas ought to be banned? I don't buy
that. I know plenty of people who ride bikes capable of obliterating
every speed limit and every posted maximum safe cornering speed in
every corner in the country; who ride both sanely and well within
their own limits on the street. Myself included. Why should we be
denied motorcycle choices because a relatively few young,
inexperienced, immature, (or old, inexperienced and/or immature)
idiots go out and plaster themselves on various immovable objects
scattered on and about our nation's highways?
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

On Oct 15, 2:24 pm, "Andrew"
<yogig.no.spam.mmm.sp... DeleteThis @n.o.sp.am....@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <tomor... DeleteThis @erols.com> wrote in message

> > I don't see political correctness at work in the switch from 2-strokes
> > to 4-strokes in the premier GP class. I see marketing. I think the
> > 250cc 2-strokes will be replaced by a 600cc 4-stroke support class
> > within the next 2-3 years.
>
> > Manufacturers build and sell 4-stroke street bikes, therefore they
> > want their technological icons to be 4-strokes as well. Racing at the
> > factory level exists for only two reasons. Marketing and technology
> > testing. Neither of those are benefitted by racing motorcycles
> > radically different than those you sell on Monday.
>
> I disagree here. You can't go out and sell a GP2 car or an F1 car to a
> normal consumer.

Nope, but antilock brakes, traction control, digital stability
control, crush zones, independent suspension, radial tires, disk
brakes, and most recently, carbon fiber/ceramic disk brakes all
started in racing and trickled down to street cars; first sports cars,
then sport sedans, and finally to the most humble and prosaic economy
cars (well, except the ceramic/cf brakes, of course!)

> This is the highest class of Bike Racing; I vote for technology over sales.
> Do you really think the horrible Toyota Racing F1 team has an effect on
> their car sales?

I think they expect it to, once they get it working properly. Same
for their NASCAR effort. It's *all* about marketing. If they get
some technological trickledown, that's gravy.
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

"Steve Mackay" <steve_mackay.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4713ce29$0$26361$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

>
> Even the new Buell 1125R is way overkill for street duties. Bud *DAMN* was
> it fun at Road America
>
>
>

I swear this is the only bike I am considering to trade the speed triple in
on.

If I don't like it; I'll prolly stick with what I've got another few years.


--

Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler 

tomorrow DeleteThis @erols.com wrote:

>Manufacturers build and sell 4-stroke street bikes, therefore they
>want their technological icons to be 4-strokes as well. Racing at the
>factory level exists for only two reasons. Marketing and technology
>testing. Neither of those are benefitted by racing motorcycles
>radically different than those you sell on Monday.

And that inevitably leads to fat, egotistical posers riding machines they
can't control on public roads and squids and stuntas and unfair law
enforcement and all the evils of image selling...

--
Message posted via MotorcycleKB.com
http://www.motorcyclekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/sportbike/200710/1
 >> Stay informed about: Phillip Island spoiler