Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway?

gunluvver2 DeleteThis @aol.com (Gunluvver2) wrote in message news:<20040524171836.15096.00001812 DeleteThis @mb-m10.aol.com>...
 > What is freedom?
 >
 >
 > Laws are a necessary part of living in a civilized society but when do laws
 > become an intrusion on our freedom? On a scale of 0 to ten with 10 being the
 > greatest threat to freedom how would you rate the laws listed below?
 >
 > 1. The death penalty is an appropriate penalty for treason.
 > 2. The death penalty is appropriate for treason & first degree murder.
 > 3. Life without parole for habitual offenders.
 > 4. Laws allowing the FCC to fine broadcasters for obscene speech or acts.
 > 5. Restricting alcohol sales to those 21 or older.
 > 6. Restricting the sale of tobacco to those 18 or older.
 > 7. Mandatory seat belt use for all drivers.
 > 8. Mandatory seat belt use for children under 18.
 > 9. Mandatory helmet use for all motorcyclists.
 > 10. Mandatory helmet use for all occupants of any motor vehicle.
 > 11. Prohibiting the possession of a sword.
 > 12. Prohibiting pocketknives.
 > 13. No ownership of handguns by law abiding adults.
 > 14. No ownership of a rifle of a type carried by our combat infantry.
 > 15. Requiring immigrants or tourists to this country to carry I.D.
 > 16. Requiring citizens of this country to carry I.D. at all times.
 > 17. Immediate deportation of all non-citizens who commit a felony.
 > 18. Lifetime suspension of driving privileges after a third DWI conviction.
 > 19. Putting a cap on the amount of money an individual can contribute to a
 > political party or candidate.
 > 20. Stopping all P.A.C. groups like the NRA, AARP, AAA, or the AFL/CIO from
 > making any political contributions to any party or candidate.
 > 21. Making any speech that ridicules or degrades a racial minority a "hate"
 > crime.
 > 22. Publicly condemning or discriminating another persons sexual orientation.
 > 23. Public prayer in our schools.
 > 24. Any words that mention God in public documents or in public buildings.
 > 25. Requiring those who file frivolous lawsuits and lose them to pay the legal
 > expenses of the other party.
 >
 > If you have any others that you would like to comment on, go for it.
 >
 > Dennis


Search proceedures authorized in the so-called patriot act.

The designation of "unlawful combatants" without any due process.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

"Gunluvver2" <gunluvver2.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040524171836.15096.00001812@mb-m10.aol.com...
 > What is freedom?
 >
 >
 > Laws are a necessary part of living in a civilized society but when do
laws
 > become an intrusion on our freedom? On a scale of 0 to ten with 10 being
the
 > greatest threat to freedom how would you rate the laws listed below?
 >
 > 1. The death penalty is an appropriate penalty for treason.
10
 >
 > 2. The death penalty is appropriate for treason & first degree murder.
10
 >
 > 3. Life without parole for habitual offenders.
8
 >
 > 4. Laws allowing the FCC to fine broadcasters for obscene speech or acts.
0
 >
 > 5. Restricting alcohol sales to those 21 or older.
3
 >
 > 6. Restricting the sale of tobacco to those 18 or older.
8
 >
 > 7. Mandatory seat belt use for all drivers.
4
 >
 > 8. Mandatory seat belt use for children under 18.
10
 >
 > 9. Mandatory helmet use for all motorcyclists.
0
 >
 > 10. Mandatory helmet use for all occupants of any motor vehicle.
5
 >
 > 11. Prohibiting the possession of a sword.
0
 >
 > 12. Prohibiting pocketknives.
0
 >
 > 13. No ownership of handguns by law abiding adults.
8
 >
 > 14. No ownership of a rifle of a type carried by our combat infantry.
10
 >
 > 15. Requiring immigrants or tourists to this country to carry I.D.
10
 >
 > 16. Requiring citizens of this country to carry I.D. at all times.
0
 >
 > 17. Immediate deportation of all non-citizens who commit a felony.
10 after a jail term
 >
 > 18. Lifetime suspension of driving privileges after a third DWI
conviction. 10
 >
 > 19. Putting a cap on the amount of money an individual can contribute to
a 10
 > political party or candidate.
 >
 > 20. Stopping all P.A.C. groups like the NRA, AARP, AAA, or the AFL/CIO
from 5
 > making any political contributions to any party or candidate.
 >
 > 21. Making any speech that ridicules or degrades a racial minority a
"hate" 0 freedom of speech
 > crime.
 >
 > 22. Publicly condemning or discriminating another persons sexual
orientation. 0
 >
 > 23. Public prayer in our schools.
10 separation/intimidation
 >
 > 24. Any words that mention God in public documents or in public
buildings. 10 separation/intimidation
 >
 > 25. Requiring those who file frivolous lawsuits and lose them to pay the
legal 5
 > expenses of the other party.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

Gunluvver2 wrote:

 >
 > If you have any others that you would like to comment on, go for it.

"We are forces of chaos and anarchy
Everything they say we are we are
And we are very
Proud of ourselves
Up against the wall
Up against the wall motherfucker"

Jefferson Airplane<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

Gunluvver2 wrote:

 > What is freedom?

 > Laws are a necessary part of living in a civilized society but when do laws
 > become an intrusion on our freedom? On a scale of 0 to ten with 10 being the
 > greatest threat to freedom how would you rate the laws listed below?

 > 1. The death penalty is an appropriate penalty for treason.

If applied to the bu$h regime, this would greatly increase
freedoms around the globe. Rating - 0

 > 2. The death penalty is appropriate for treason & first
degree murder.

Same as number 1.

 > 3. Life without parole for habitual offenders.

Same as number 2.

 > If you have any others that you would like to comment on, go for it.

4. Spending billions of tax payer dollars hunting down and caging
people who use the "wrong" recreational drugs. Major loss of
freedom. Rating 10.

5. Denying women the right to a safe and legal abortion.
Major loss of freedom. Rating 10.

6. Forcing working tax payers to give their money to
corporate thieves and terrorists. Major loss of freedom.
Rating 10.

7. Forcing young men and women who agreed to serve in the
military to protect their Nation, to fight and die for
corporate thieves, liars, and mass murdering terrorists.
Major loss of freedom. Rating 10.

-

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.911forthetruth.com/united_states_district_court.htm" target="_blank">http://www.911forthetruth.com/united_states_district_court.htm</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.septembereleventh.org/" target="_blank">http://www.septembereleventh.org/</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://globalresearch.ca/" target="_blank">http://globalresearch.ca/</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.wsws.org/" target="_blank">http://www.wsws.org/</a>

Dick Cheney: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam
Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction." August 26, 2002.

Ari Fleischer: "We know for a fact that there are weapons there."
January 9, 2003.

Colin Powell: "We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep
his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more."
February 5, 2003.

Donald Rumsfeld: "We know where they are," about these weapons.
"They are in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad." March 30, 2003.

George W. Bush: "We have sources that tell us that Saddam
Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical
weapons." February 8, 2003.

George W. Bush: "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments
leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal
some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." March 17, 2003.


"I think this is the worst government the US has ever
had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
- George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

"One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.commondreams.org/" target="_blank">http://www.commondreams.org/</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.truthout.org/" target="_blank">http://www.truthout.org/</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://counterpunch.org/" target="_blank">http://counterpunch.org/</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://responsiblewealth.org/" target="_blank">http://responsiblewealth.org/</a>


"After all, it is the leaders of the country who determine
the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to
do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country
to danger. It works the same in any country."
-- Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and
Luftwaffe Commander in Chief

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."
-- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
-- Al Franken

Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...


"Personally, I don't think all the Iraqis on earth are
worth even a single American life." - A usenet rabid
right wing extremist terrorist.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

gunluvver2.TakeThisOut@aol.com (Gunluvver2) wrote in
news:20040524171836.15096.00001812@mb-m10.aol.com:

 > What is freedom?
 >
 >
 > Laws are a necessary part of living in a civilized society but when do
 > laws become an intrusion on our freedom? On a scale of 0 to ten with
 > 10 being the greatest threat to freedom how would you rate the laws
 > listed below?
 >
 > 1. The death penalty is an appropriate penalty for treason.
 >
 > 2. The death penalty is appropriate for treason & first degree
 > murder.
 >
 > 3. Life without parole for habitual offenders.
 >
 > 4. Laws allowing the FCC to fine broadcasters for obscene speech or
 > acts.
 >
 > 5. Restricting alcohol sales to those 21 or older.
 >
 > 6. Restricting the sale of tobacco to those 18 or older.
 >
 > 7. Mandatory seat belt use for all drivers.
 >
 > 8. Mandatory seat belt use for children under 18.
 >
 > 9. Mandatory helmet use for all motorcyclists.
 >
 > 10. Mandatory helmet use for all occupants of any motor vehicle.
 >
 > 11. Prohibiting the possession of a sword.
 >
 > 12. Prohibiting pocketknives.
 >
 > 13. No ownership of handguns by law abiding adults.
 >
 > 14. No ownership of a rifle of a type carried by our combat infantry.
 >
 > 15. Requiring immigrants or tourists to this country to carry I.D.
 >
 > 16. Requiring citizens of this country to carry I.D. at all times.
 >
 > 17. Immediate deportation of all non-citizens who commit a felony.
 >
 > 18. Lifetime suspension of driving privileges after a third DWI
 > conviction.
 >
 > 19. Putting a cap on the amount of money an individual can contribute
 > to a political party or candidate.
 >
 > 20. Stopping all P.A.C. groups like the NRA, AARP, AAA, or the
 > AFL/CIO from making any political contributions to any party or
 > candidate.
 >
 > 21. Making any speech that ridicules or degrades a racial minority a
 > "hate" crime.
 >
 > 22. Publicly condemning or discriminating another persons sexual
 > orientation.
 >
 > 23. Public prayer in our schools.
 >
 > 24. Any words that mention God in public documents or in public
 > buildings.
 >
 > 25. Requiring those who file frivolous lawsuits and lose them to pay
 > the legal expenses of the other party.

26. The criminalization for the growing and pocession of cannibas as a
felony in most states.


 > If you have any others that you would like to comment on, go for it.
 >
 > Dennis

added one

huey<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

"Huey Long"> wrote in message
 > 26. The criminalization for the growing and pocession of cannibas as a
0
 > felony in most states.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

Subject: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway?
From: gunluvver2.DeleteThis@aol.com (Gunluvver2)
Date: 5/24/2004 2:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <20040524171836.15096.00001812.DeleteThis@mb-m10.aol.com>

What is freedom?


*Laws are a necessary part of living in a civilized society*
   >>>>

Bollocks! In a civilized society the civility/culture regulates behavior. In an
uncivilized society laws are needed.

For example, in a civilized society you know how to behave in a park. In an
uncivilized society, you are greeted by a big board with all the rules,
restrictions and regulations listed for you.

Roman<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

 >Bollocks! In a civilized society the civility/culture regulates behavior. In an
 >uncivilized society laws are needed.
 >
 >For example, in a civilized society you know how to behave in a park. In an
 >uncivilized society, you are greeted by a big board with all the rules,
 >restrictions and regulations listed for you.


You're mistaking cizilized people for a civilized society.

Civilized people know how to behave.

A civilized society realizes that there are many uncivilized people
within their ranks which must be kept to conformity by rules/regs and
threat of punishment.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

 > What is freedom?
 >
 >

If you thought your list would piss people off...wait until some nimrod takes a
look at my answers!



 >Laws are a necessary part of living in a civilized society but when do laws
 >become an intrusion on our freedom? On a scale of 0 to ten with 10 being the
 >greatest threat to freedom how would you rate the laws listed below?
 >
 >1. The death penalty is an appropriate penalty for treason.
1
 >
 >2. The death penalty is appropriate for treason & first degree murder.
1 >
 >3. Life without parole for habitual offenders.
1
 >
 >4. Laws allowing the FCC to fine broadcasters for obscene speech or acts.
10...like the judge said " I may not be able to define obscene...but
I know it when I see it"
 >
 >5. Restricting alcohol sales to those 21 or older.
5
 >
 >6. Restricting the sale of tobacco to those 18 or older.
1
 >
 >7. Mandatory seat belt use for all drivers.
5 saftey equipment that requires active
participation means that if you don't want it...don't sue!
 >
 >8. Mandatory seat belt use for children under 18.
1
 >
 >9. Mandatory helmet use for all motorcyclists.
10 In the sense that if you aren't smart enough to
take precautions and use some sense...tought titty.
 >
 >10. Mandatory helmet use for all occupants of any motor vehicle.
10
But if one type of vehicle should be required to wear one then ALL SHOULD HAVE
TO!
 >
 >11. Prohibiting the possession of a sword.
10
it's not a real concern because so few people could afford one much less afford
the time and money to learn to use one without hurting themselves, so why
legislate against them?
 >
 >12. Prohibiting pocketknives.
10

if you don't understand how this is wrong you are stupid, ignorant and should
be spayed/neutered.
 >
 >13. No ownership of handguns by law abiding adults.
10
 >
see #12's commentary ytc!

 >14. No ownership of a rifle of a type carried by our combat infantry.
10
 >

see #12 ytc

 >15. Requiring immigrants or tourists to this country to carry I.D.
1
I have to carry ID and so does everyone else...it just isn't enforced.
 >

 >16. Requiring citizens of this country to carry I.D. at all times.
1

non issue as it's there on a state level but not enforced...iirc.

 >
 >17. Immediate deportation of all non-citizens who commit a felony.
1

sure as long as they are deported AFTER serving their sentence.1

 >18. Lifetime suspension of driving privileges after a third DWI conviction.
1


 >
 >19. Putting a cap on the amount of money an individual can contribute to a
 >political party or candidate.
1


 >
 >20. Stopping all P.A.C. groups like the NRA, AARP, AAA, or the AFL/CIO from
 >making any political contributions to any party or candidate.
1


 >
 >21. Making any speech that ridicules or degrades a racial minority a "hate"
 >crime.
10
it's called free speech and as long as they aren't inciting a riot or murder
they can whatever they want...makes it easier to spot and discriminate against
the racists. I do...I take the time to make life miserable for racists of all
colours.

 >
 >22. Publicly condemning or discriminating another persons sexual
 >orientation.
10


 >
 >23. Public prayer in our schools.
5
as long as there are tests in school there will be public prayer in school. BUT
it shouldn't be illegal to pray out loud at the begining of the day or at lunch
when the faithful face mecca.

 >
 >24. Any words that mention God in public documents or in public buildings.
10


 >
 >25. Requiring those who file frivolous lawsuits and lose them to pay the
 >legal expenses of the other party.
1


 >
 >If you have any others that you would like to comment on, go for it.
 >
 >Dennis
 >
 >
 >

Requiring people who have wreck while using their cellphone to be banned from
driving for life.


Nefarious Necrologist 42nd class
Some people ride, some just like to show off their butt
jewelry once in a while.
Dum vivimus, vivamus
<3 )3~~ <3 )3~~<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

On 24 May 2004 21:18:36 GMT, gunluvver2.RemoveThis@aol.com (Gunluvver2) wrote:

 > What is freedom?
 >
 >
 >Laws are a necessary part of living in a civilized society but when do laws
 >become an intrusion on our freedom? On a scale of 0 to ten with 10 being the
 >greatest threat to freedom how would you rate the laws listed below?
 >
 >1. The death penalty is an appropriate penalty for treason.

Death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment. When a court of law is
used to hand out death it ceases to exist as a hall of justice.

 >4. Laws allowing the FCC to fine broadcasters for obscene speech or acts.

Well if they don't like it they can stop using the public airwaves.

Actually there shouldn't be any "public airwaves" but don't tell that
to the broadcaster thieves! They like their little licensing scam that
prevents anyone from infringing on their little slice of the spectrum
in a free market fashion.

 >11. Prohibiting the possession of a sword.

Somebody hide my mansnake!

 >25. Requiring those who file frivolous lawsuits and lose them to pay the legal
 >expenses of the other party.

They do that now? Which state?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores <caesar.TakeThisOut@casaputana.it> wrote in message news:<u517b01e6abfmeahcvba5iijmunesggt4p.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>...
 > On 24 May 2004 21:18:36 GMT, gunluvver2.TakeThisOut@aol.com (Gunluvver2) wrote:

  > >25. Requiring those who file frivolous lawsuits and lose them to pay the legal
  > >expenses of the other party.
 >
 > They do that now? Which state?

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legal_issues/legal_updates/other_noteworthy_cases/frivolous_lawsuits.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legal_issues/legal_updates/other_noteworthy...ses/fri</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

On 24 May 2004 18:08:06 -0700, jim rozen <jim_member RemoveThis @newsguy.com>
wrote:

 >In article <20040524171836.15096.00001812 RemoveThis @mb-m10.aol.com>, Gunluvver2 says...
 >
  >> What is freedom?
 >
 >I dunno but it's over on the metalworking ng too.

Dang! I thought I recognized that subject line from somewhere...

Al Moore
DoD 734<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway? 

On 25 May 2004 16:35:37 -0700, Rkleinsch1216128 RemoveThis @aol.com (Rob
Kleinschmidt) wrote:

 >Demetrius XXIV and the Gladiatores <caesar RemoveThis @casaputana.it> wrote in message news:<u517b01e6abfmeahcvba5iijmunesggt4p RemoveThis @4ax.com>...
  >> On 24 May 2004 21:18:36 GMT, gunluvver2 RemoveThis @aol.com (Gunluvver2) wrote:
 >
   >> >25. Requiring those who file frivolous lawsuits and lose them to pay the legal
   >> >expenses of the other party.
  >>
  >> They do that now? Which state?
 >
 >http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/legal_issues/legal_updates/other_noteworthy_cases/frivolous_lawsuits.htm

Bah, that's been around forever and any real weasely lawyer worth his
salt makes sure their frivolous lawsuits dance right outside the
boundary. It's very difficult to prove nefarious intent in a court of
law. You need one heck of a smoking gun. And if the lawyer is sloppy
enough to give it to you then by all means, shoot the bastard.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Partially on topic. What is freedom anyway?