so we have a MotoGP champion

"Bob Nixon" wrote in message

> On Sep 24, 10:41 am, "Brutus" wrote:
> > wrote in
messagenews:1190642567.790290.123830@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
> > > wrote:
> > > > "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
> >
> > > > > On Sep 23, 6:28 pm, alf wrote:
> >
> [...]
>
> > Especially with antiquated frame and engine technology (according to Bob .
>
> Wait a minute, Brutus. Yes the old Crome-molly trellis frame could be
> improved on for a so called "exotic race GP bike" (Carbon fiber or
> Titanium for a rich kid )

Bob,err Bob what bike has been dominating MotoGP racing this season. Hint: it is using an old
crome-moly trellis frame...Nuff said...


but Ducati does sport a V4 like everyone
> else in MGP.

Yamaha uses a inline four-cylinder.
Honda is using a V4 but it may not be a 90 degree V.
Suzuki is using a 90 degree V4.
Kawasaki is using a inline four-cylinder.



>The Desmo valve technology is Ducati's trademark and may
> be the reason they had a HP advantage this year but the Japanese big
> four are also pulling >18K RPM with steel valve springs on the "on
> board" race photos I've seen.
>
> What I was refering to was the stupid bike switching when the race was
> declared wet. I think the outcome could have been different had
> Rossi's #2 bike not had problems when he switched bikes.
>
> As far as a Ducati winning the race I've no problem with that as
> they've been leading the races for most of this GP season. It would be
> kind of be like me bitching about Ferrari winning races. The Italian's
> have always put a lot of R&D racing money back in their car/bikes; a
> good thing but did you read the July Superbike test in the Sport Rider
> Comparo with your new 1098 only putting out 137HP and all the fours in
> the 151-159RWHP range?

BTW the 137hp figure is the lowest I've seen, most have been in the 140-144hp range--Big deal it's
still plenty fast



They even hinted the 1098 was not even in the
> same class as the Japanese bikes.& at $15K vs about $11K for the
> fours;) This is just my opinion but Ducati "publically sold
> motorcycles" have never been on par in terms of stock performance
> levels compared to equal displacement Japanese bikes in two cylinder
> variety. Sure you can buy a 2 valve air cooled 1000cc Monster that
> will put a whoopin' on an SV-650 but what about the race reps in all
> brands including the MV Agusta 1000cc.

The MV Agusta uses a inline four-cylinder engine...

Curently the 1098 is the fasted prodution V-twin that I'm aware of....I still haven't come to terms
with it yet



Or even a 4 valve Monster vs a
> cheap $8K SV-1000?
>
> Bob Nixon.
>
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

On Sep 24, 8:10 pm, Bob Nixon wrote:
> On Sep 24, 10:41 am, "Brutus" wrote:> wrote in messagenews:1190642567.790290.123830@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
> > > wrote:
> > > > "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
>
> > > > > On Sep 23, 6:28 pm, alf wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Especially with antiquated frame and engine technology (according to Bob .
>
> Wait a minute, Brutus. Yes the old Crome-molly trellis frame could be
> improved on for a so called "exotic race GP bike" (Carbon fiber or
> Titanium for a rich kid ) but Ducati does sport a V4 like everyone
> else in MGP. The Desmo valve technology is Ducati's trademark and may
> be the reason they had a HP advantage this year but the Japanese big
> four are also pulling >18K RPM with steel valve springs on the "on
> board" race photos I've seen.
>
> What I was refering to was the stupid bike switching when the race was
> declared wet. I think the outcome could have been different had
> Rossi's #2 bike not had problems when he switched bikes.
>
> As far as a Ducati winning the race I've no problem with that as
> they've been leading the races for most of this GP season. It would be
> kind of be like me bitching about Ferrari winning races. The Italian's
> have always put a lot of R&D racing money back in their car/bikes; a
> good thing but did you read the July Superbike test in the Sport Rider
> Comparo with your new 1098 only putting out 137HP and all the fours in
> the 151-159RWHP range? They even hinted the 1098 was not even in the
> same class as the Japanese bikes.& at $15K vs about $11K for the
> fours;) This is just my opinion but Ducati "publically sold
> motorcycles" have never been on par in terms of stock performance
> levels compared to equal displacement Japanese bikes in two cylinder
> variety. Sure you can buy a 2 valve air cooled 1000cc Monster that
> will put a whoopin' on an SV-650 but what about the race reps in all
> brands including the MV Agusta 1000cc. Or even a 4 valve Monster vs a
> cheap $8K SV-1000?
>
> Bob Nixon.

Yup. Or a Honda RVT. Put some pipes on it and it sounds as good or
better than any duc.
Upgrade the suspension and it'll be faster, too.
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

tomorrow.RemoveThis@erols.com wrote:
>
> I think Nicky Hayden failed to get the factory team support that a
> reigning world champion deserves. It looked to me all season as

It seemed like he had the same problems last year, basically being a
test rider for the 2007 parts in 2006.

- Kurt
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

On Sep 24, 7:54 pm, "Brutus" wrote:
> "Bob Nixon" wrote in message
>
> news:1190682611.460009.152310@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...> On Sep 24, 10:41 am, "Brutus" wrote:
> > > wrote in
>
> messagenews:1190642567.790290.123830@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
>
[...]

> > As far as a Ducati winning the race I've no problem with that as
> > they've been leading the races for most of this GP season. It would be
> > kind of be like me bitching about Ferrari winning races. The Italian's
> > have always put a lot of R&D racing money back in their car/bikes; a
> > good thing but did you read the July Superbike test in the Sport Rider
> > Comparo with your new 1098 only putting out 137HP and all the fours in
> > the 151-159RWHP range?
>
> BTW the 137hp figure is the lowest I've seen, most have been in the 140-144hp range--Big deal it's
> still plenty fast

Sure it's plenty fast but both expensive and lacking in the benifits
of scavenging, a small valve train, that a four cylinder gives with
less work to get it. Brutus, if you like your 1098 then God bless you
but there was a whole lot of hype leading into the devue of the 1098
that may be just a tad overstated.

BTW, Why can't Ducati build a modern frame??? Hell for 40% less weight
they could weld up a titanuim frame in a glovebox. Same strenght, just
40% less weight and the status a Duc should have. BTW, whoever in this
thead that stated the use of titanium VALVE SPRINGS was full of it.
Valves and rods, yes but it donesn't make the best spring metal. Also,
Pnumatic valve springs & camless solinoid actuated valves are the
future of IC engines, IMHO.

> They even hinted the 1098 was not even in the
>
> > same class as the Japanese bikes.& at $15K vs about $11K for the
> > fours;) This is just my opinion but Ducati "publically sold
> > motorcycles" have never been on par in terms of stock performance
> > levels compared to equal displacement Japanese bikes in two cylinder
> > variety. Sure you can buy a 2 valve air cooled 1000cc Monster that
> > will put a whoopin' on an SV-650 but what about the race reps in all
> > brands including the MV Agusta 1000cc.
>
> The MV Agusta uses a inline four-cylinder engine...

Again the engine layout inline or different V ange has -0- to do with
HP or punch out of the corners anymore with the big band engines.


> Curently the 1098 is the fasted prodution V-twin that I'm aware of....I still haven't come to terms
> with it yet

That's only because everytone else has dropped out of the market for
race engines. Even Honda still only makes twins in cruisers. The SV
650 & 1000 are stright up and down seating low cost new UMJ bikes,
Yamaha dropped that parelellel 900cc twin awhile back and Kwak has
only a half assed 650 parellel twin to try to compete with the SV-650.
The BMW's, Buell 1125, & Duke 999 are an expensive nitch markets and
Guzzi, at $12,600 OTD even for the new OHC engine is way overpriced.
Like I said about a month ago, about the only smooth twin i've seen to
date is the very successful little SV-650 that actually has a bit
better power to weight ratio than the "holly Grail" of bikes or the
Honda VFR. There are rumors abounding now about a replacement 1000cc
VFR version, though:) I stated what was needed awhile back but it fell
on deaf ears (a simple roots blower) on a bike with half the weight &
displacement. Ducati, shurely has the $$ to buy a small COTS unit for
thier 695 or 800.

Bob Nixon.

> Or even a 4 valve Monster vs a

> > Bob Nixon.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Bob Nixon, just arguing, no offence intended towards Brutus.
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

Brutus wrote:
> "Bob Nixon" wrote in message
>
>> On Sep 24, 10:41 am, "Brutus" wrote:
>>> wrote in
> messagenews:1190642567.790290.123830@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
>>>>>> On Sep 23, 6:28 pm, alf wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>>> Especially with antiquated frame and engine technology (according to Bob .
>> Wait a minute, Brutus. Yes the old Crome-molly trellis frame could be
>> improved on for a so called "exotic race GP bike" (Carbon fiber or
>> Titanium for a rich kid )
>
> Bob,err Bob what bike has been dominating MotoGP racing this season. Hint: it is using an old
> crome-moly trellis frame...Nuff said...
>
>
> but Ducati does sport a V4 like everyone
>> else in MGP.
>
> Yamaha uses a inline four-cylinder.
> Honda is using a V4 but it may not be a 90 degree V.
> Suzuki is using a 90 degree V4.
> Kawasaki is using a inline four-cylinder.
>
>
>
> >The Desmo valve technology is Ducati's trademark and may
>> be the reason they had a HP advantage this year but the Japanese big
>> four are also pulling >18K RPM with steel valve springs on the "on
>> board" race photos I've seen.
>>
>> What I was refering to was the stupid bike switching when the race was
>> declared wet. I think the outcome could have been different had
>> Rossi's #2 bike not had problems when he switched bikes.
>>
>> As far as a Ducati winning the race I've no problem with that as
>> they've been leading the races for most of this GP season. It would be
>> kind of be like me bitching about Ferrari winning races. The Italian's
>> have always put a lot of R&D racing money back in their car/bikes; a
>> good thing but did you read the July Superbike test in the Sport Rider
>> Comparo with your new 1098 only putting out 137HP and all the fours in
>> the 151-159RWHP range?
>
> BTW the 137hp figure is the lowest I've seen, most have been in the 140-144hp range--Big deal it's
> still plenty fast
>
>
>
> They even hinted the 1098 was not even in the
>> same class as the Japanese bikes.& at $15K vs about $11K for the
>> fours;) This is just my opinion but Ducati "publically sold
>> motorcycles" have never been on par in terms of stock performance
>> levels compared to equal displacement Japanese bikes in two cylinder
>> variety. Sure you can buy a 2 valve air cooled 1000cc Monster that
>> will put a whoopin' on an SV-650 but what about the race reps in all
>> brands including the MV Agusta 1000cc.
>
> The MV Agusta uses a inline four-cylinder engine...
>
> Curently the 1098 is the fasted prodution V-twin that I'm aware of....I still haven't come to terms
> with it yet

The 1125R hasn't been tested against it yet

>
>
>
> Or even a 4 valve Monster vs a
>> cheap $8K SV-1000?
>>
>> Bob Nixon.
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

"Steve Mackay" wrote in message

> Brutus wrote:



> >
> > Curently the 1098 is the fasted prodution V-twin that I'm aware of....I still haven't come to
terms
> > with it yet
>
> The 1125R hasn't been tested against it yet

This may be the Buell that we've all been waiting for although I think I'll wait to see the reports
about the Rotax engine before trading in the Duc

Any plans for a race effort? Come on Steve out with it, we know that you're privy to the inside
info.

I think it would be eligible in BSB and WSB and Harley ought to still have some pull in the AMA...
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

wrote in message

> On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
> wrote:
>> "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
>
>> > On Sep 23, 6:28 pm, alf wrote:
>
>> >> 17 days earlier then last year we have got to know the 2007 MotoGP
>> >> winner. Any comments, will Rossi strike back in 2008. What happened to
>> >> Kentucky Kid ...
>
>> > Alf, it looked more to me like a declared rain ride clusterfu*k-
>
>> I love wet races. They are very exciting.
>> Alf, I wish you would have put spoiler in the title of the post.
>> I saw it before I watched the race.
>
> I thought it was a tremendously exciting race, too. Sure was nice to
> see Ducati win both the race and the Championship so convincingly.
> Especially when it's not Superbike, so people can't cry about how the
> rules gave their bikes an "unfair advantage." It's nice to see a
> company with less than one tenth the racing budget of Honda
> convincingly stomp all of the Japanese big four!

And to do it in Japan makes it even sweeter.
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

"Bob Nixon" wrote in message

> On Sep 24, 7:54 pm, "Brutus" wrote:
> > "Bob Nixon" wrote in message
> >
> > news:1190682611.460009.152310@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...> On Sep 24, 10:41 am, "Brutus"
wrote:
> > > > wrote in
> >
> > messagenews:1190642567.790290.123830@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > > > On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
> >
> [...]
>
> > > As far as a Ducati winning the race I've no problem with that as
> > > they've been leading the races for most of this GP season. It would be
> > > kind of be like me bitching about Ferrari winning races. The Italian's
> > > have always put a lot of R&D racing money back in their car/bikes; a
> > > good thing but did you read the July Superbike test in the Sport Rider
> > > Comparo with your new 1098 only putting out 137HP and all the fours in
> > > the 151-159RWHP range?
> >
> > BTW the 137hp figure is the lowest I've seen, most have been in the 140-144hp range--Big deal
it's
> > still plenty fast
>
> Sure it's plenty fast but both expensive and lacking in the benifits
> of scavenging, a small valve train, that a four cylinder gives with
> less work to get it.

Along with the vibration, as not in the GOOD VIB's state of mind


> Brutus, if you like your 1098 then God bless you

Thanks Bob, sprinkle some Holy water on me...



> but there was a whole lot of hype leading into the devue of the 1098
> that may be just a tad overstated.
>
> BTW, Why can't Ducati build a modern frame??? Hell for 40% less weight
> they could weld up a titanuim frame in a glovebox. Same strenght, just
> 40% less weight and the status a Duc should have.

Bob, they are making the best frames on any road racing bike in the world.
Proof: they are dominating the fastest RR class in the world Moto GP...

I see quite a few titanuim frames at the local bicycle shop.

BTW the top bicycles are now selling for 12k!!!
16.5 lbs of road bike--makes our mc look like good value



BTW, whoever in this
> thead that stated the use of titanium VALVE SPRINGS was full of it.
> Valves and rods, yes but it donesn't make the best spring metal. Also,
> Pnumatic valve springs & camless solinoid actuated valves are the
> future of IC engines, IMHO.

For road bikes this technology has a long way to go. Added complexity ( plumbing/and pressure
storage) and lack of fail safe reliability, remember if pressure fails-there goes your engine. The
benifit is only a few K extra rpm which might not have much street ride value.

But then again us sportbike riders aren't well known for rationality except Troy and the
Saddleman,well maybe not



> > They even hinted the 1098 was not even in the
> >
> > > same class as the Japanese bikes.& at $15K vs about $11K for the
> > > fours;) This is just my opinion but Ducati "publically sold
> > > motorcycles" have never been on par in terms of stock performance
> > > levels compared to equal displacement Japanese bikes in two cylinder
> > > variety. Sure you can buy a 2 valve air cooled 1000cc Monster that
> > > will put a whoopin' on an SV-650 but what about the race reps in all
> > > brands including the MV Agusta 1000cc.
> >
> > The MV Agusta uses a inline four-cylinder engine...
>
> Again the engine layout inline or different V ange has -0- to do with
> HP or punch out of the corners anymore with the big band engines.
>
>
> > Curently the 1098 is the fasted prodution V-twin that I'm aware of....I still haven't come to
terms
> > with it yet
>
> That's only because everytone else has dropped out of the market for
> race engines. Even Honda still only makes twins in cruisers. The SV
> 650 & 1000 are stright up and down seating low cost new UMJ bikes,
> Yamaha dropped that parelellel 900cc twin awhile back and Kwak has
> only a half assed 650 parellel twin to try to compete with the SV-650.
> The BMW's, Buell 1125, & Duke 999 are an expensive nitch markets and
> Guzzi, at $12,600 OTD even for the new OHC engine is way overpriced.
> Like I said about a month ago, about the only smooth twin i've seen to
> date is the very successful little SV-650 that actually has a bit
> better power to weight ratio than the "holly Grail" of bikes or the
> Honda VFR. There are rumors abounding now about a replacement 1000cc
> VFR version, though:) I stated what was needed awhile back but it fell
> on deaf ears (a simple roots blower) on a bike with half the weight &
> displacement. Ducati, shurely has the $$ to buy a small COTS unit for
> thier 695 or 800.
>
> Bob Nixon.
>
> > Or even a 4 valve Monster vs a
>
> > > Bob Nixon.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Bob Nixon, just arguing, no offence intended towards Brutus.

None taken Bob, I know (and agree with) your writing style...
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

On Sep 25, 12:39 pm, Vaughn wrote:
> On Sep 25, 2:36 pm, Vaughn wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 25, 1:11 am, Bob Nixon wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 24, 7:54 pm, "Brutus" wrote:> "Bob Nixon" wrote in message
>
> > > >news:1190682611.460009.152310@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...> On Sep 24, 10:41 am, "Brutus" wrote:
> > > > > > wrote in
>
> > > > messagenews:1190642567.790290.123830@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
>
> > > [...]
>
> > > > > As far as a Ducati winning the race I've no problem with that as
> > > > > they've been leading the races for most of this GP season. It would be
> > > > > kind of be like me bitching about Ferrari winning races. The Italian's
> > > > > have always put a lot of R&D racing money back in their car/bikes; a
> > > > > good thing but did you read the July Superbike test in the Sport Rider
> > > > > Comparo with your new 1098 only putting out 137HP and all the fours in
> > > > > the 151-159RWHP range?
>
> > > > BTW the 137hp figure is the lowest I've seen, most have been in the 140-144hp range--Big deal it's
> > > > still plenty fast
>
> > > Sure it's plenty fast but both expensive and lacking in the benifits
> > > of scavenging, a small valve train, that a four cylinder gives with
> > > less work to get it. Brutus, if you like your 1098 then God bless you
> > > but there was a whole lot of hype leading into the devue of the 1098
> > > that may be just a tad overstated.
>
> > > BTW, Why can't Ducati build a modern frame??? Hell for 40% less weight
> > > they could weld up a titanuim frame in a glovebox. Same strenght, just
> > > 40% less weight and the status a Duc should have. BTW, whoever in this
> > > thead that stated the use of titanium VALVE SPRINGS was full of it.
> > > Valves and rods, yes but it donesn't make the best spring metal. Also,
> > > Pnumatic valve springs & camless solinoid actuated valves are the
> > > future of IC engines, IMHO.
>
> > > > They even hinted the 1098 was not even in the
>
> > > > > same class as the Japanese bikes.& at $15K vs about $11K for the
> > > > > fours;) This is just my opinion but Ducati "publically sold
> > > > > motorcycles" have never been on par in terms of stock performance
> > > > > levels compared to equal displacement Japanese bikes in two cylinder
> > > > > variety. Sure you can buy a 2 valve air cooled 1000cc Monster that
> > > > > will put a whoopin' on an SV-650 but what about the race reps in all
> > > > > brands including the MV Agusta 1000cc.
>
> > > > The MV Agusta uses a inline four-cylinder engine...
>
> > > Again the engine layout inline or different V ange has -0- to do with
> > > HP or punch out of the corners anymore with the big band engines.
>
> > > > Curently the 1098 is the fasted prodution V-twin that I'm aware of....I still haven't come to terms
> > > > with it yet
>
> > > That's only because everytone else has dropped out of the market for
> > > race engines. Even Honda still only makes twins in cruisers. The SV
> > > 650 & 1000 are stright up and down seating low cost new UMJ bikes,
> > > Yamaha dropped that parelellel 900cc twin awhile back and Kwak has
> > > only a half assed 650 parellel twin to try to compete with the SV-650.
> > > The BMW's, Buell 1125, & Duke 999 are an expensive nitch markets and
> > > Guzzi, at $12,600 OTD even for the new OHC engine is way overpriced.
> > > Like I said about a month ago, about the only smooth twin i've seen to
> > > date is the very successful little SV-650 that actually has a bit
> > > better power to weight ratio than the "holly Grail" of bikes or the
> > > Honda VFR. There are rumors abounding now about a replacement 1000cc
> > > VFR version, though:) I stated what was needed awhile back but it fell
> > > on deaf ears (a simple roots blower) on a bike with half the weight &
> > > displacement. Ducati, shurely has the $$ to buy a small COTS unit for
> > > thier 695 or 800.
>
> > > Bob Nixon.
>
> > > > Or even a 4 valve Monster vs a
> > > > > Bob Nixon.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Bob Nixon, just arguing, no offence intended towards Brutus.
>
> > Suzuki is still working with V-Twins.
>
> > They are finalizing a new SV1000 engine, without throttle valves but
> > with Valvetronic. According to German magazine MOTORRAD NEWS edition
> > 05/2007 a (nearly complete) prototype with significant lower fuel
> > consumption.
>
> > It will probably also be used in an updated 2008 V-Strom 1000, with
> > the release in mid-late '08. Euro 3 compliant, and hopefully smoother
> > EFI map and tuning right from the factory.
>
> > I'd also really like to see the Buell/Rotax 1125R engine in an
> > updated Uly. That could really sell!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Here's a picture of the new Zuke Liter Twin:http://vstrom.info/vsri-gallery/gallery/d/72207-1/New_SV1000_engine.jpg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for the link Kurt!

Very impressive. Still the perfect 90 degrees and maybe the new big SV
will feel a bit less like riding a jackhammer compared to it's little
brother- BTW that TL (old SV motor) goes back to 1997.

Bob Nixon
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

On Sep 25, 1:11 am, Bob Nixon wrote:
> On Sep 24, 7:54 pm, "Brutus" wrote:> "Bob Nixon" wrote in message
>
> >news:1190682611.460009.152310@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...> On Sep 24, 10:41 am, "Brutus" wrote:
> > > > wrote in
>
> > messagenews:1190642567.790290.123830@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
>
> [...]
>
> > > As far as a Ducati winning the race I've no problem with that as
> > > they've been leading the races for most of this GP season. It would be
> > > kind of be like me bitching about Ferrari winning races. The Italian's
> > > have always put a lot of R&D racing money back in their car/bikes; a
> > > good thing but did you read the July Superbike test in the Sport Rider
> > > Comparo with your new 1098 only putting out 137HP and all the fours in
> > > the 151-159RWHP range?
>
> > BTW the 137hp figure is the lowest I've seen, most have been in the 140-144hp range--Big deal it's
> > still plenty fast
>
> Sure it's plenty fast but both expensive and lacking in the benifits
> of scavenging, a small valve train, that a four cylinder gives with
> less work to get it. Brutus, if you like your 1098 then God bless you
> but there was a whole lot of hype leading into the devue of the 1098
> that may be just a tad overstated.
>
> BTW, Why can't Ducati build a modern frame??? Hell for 40% less weight
> they could weld up a titanuim frame in a glovebox. Same strenght, just
> 40% less weight and the status a Duc should have. BTW, whoever in this
> thead that stated the use of titanium VALVE SPRINGS was full of it.
> Valves and rods, yes but it donesn't make the best spring metal. Also,
> Pnumatic valve springs & camless solinoid actuated valves are the
> future of IC engines, IMHO.
>
> > They even hinted the 1098 was not even in the
>
> > > same class as the Japanese bikes.& at $15K vs about $11K for the
> > > fours;) This is just my opinion but Ducati "publically sold
> > > motorcycles" have never been on par in terms of stock performance
> > > levels compared to equal displacement Japanese bikes in two cylinder
> > > variety. Sure you can buy a 2 valve air cooled 1000cc Monster that
> > > will put a whoopin' on an SV-650 but what about the race reps in all
> > > brands including the MV Agusta 1000cc.
>
> > The MV Agusta uses a inline four-cylinder engine...
>
> Again the engine layout inline or different V ange has -0- to do with
> HP or punch out of the corners anymore with the big band engines.
>
> > Curently the 1098 is the fasted prodution V-twin that I'm aware of....I still haven't come to terms
> > with it yet
>
> That's only because everytone else has dropped out of the market for
> race engines. Even Honda still only makes twins in cruisers. The SV
> 650 & 1000 are stright up and down seating low cost new UMJ bikes,
> Yamaha dropped that parelellel 900cc twin awhile back and Kwak has
> only a half assed 650 parellel twin to try to compete with the SV-650.
> The BMW's, Buell 1125, & Duke 999 are an expensive nitch markets and
> Guzzi, at $12,600 OTD even for the new OHC engine is way overpriced.
> Like I said about a month ago, about the only smooth twin i've seen to
> date is the very successful little SV-650 that actually has a bit
> better power to weight ratio than the "holly Grail" of bikes or the
> Honda VFR. There are rumors abounding now about a replacement 1000cc
> VFR version, though:) I stated what was needed awhile back but it fell
> on deaf ears (a simple roots blower) on a bike with half the weight &
> displacement. Ducati, shurely has the $$ to buy a small COTS unit for
> thier 695 or 800.
>
> Bob Nixon.
>
> > Or even a 4 valve Monster vs a
> > > Bob Nixon.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Bob Nixon, just arguing, no offence intended towards Brutus.

Suzuki is still working with V-Twins.

They are finalizing a new SV1000 engine, without throttle valves but
with Valvetronic. According to German magazine MOTORRAD NEWS edition
05/2007 a (nearly complete) prototype with significant lower fuel
consumption.

It will probably also be used in an updated 2008 V-Strom 1000, with
the release in mid-late '08. Euro 3 compliant, and hopefully smoother
EFI map and tuning right from the factory.

I'd also really like to see the Buell/Rotax 1125R engine in an
updated Uly. That could really sell!
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

On Sep 25, 2:36 pm, Vaughn wrote:
> On Sep 25, 1:11 am, Bob Nixon wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 24, 7:54 pm, "Brutus" wrote:> "Bob Nixon" wrote in message
>
> > >news:1190682611.460009.152310@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...> On Sep 24, 10:41 am, "Brutus" wrote:
> > > > > wrote in
>
> > > messagenews:1190642567.790290.123830@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
>
> > [...]
>
> > > > As far as a Ducati winning the race I've no problem with that as
> > > > they've been leading the races for most of this GP season. It would be
> > > > kind of be like me bitching about Ferrari winning races. The Italian's
> > > > have always put a lot of R&D racing money back in their car/bikes; a
> > > > good thing but did you read the July Superbike test in the Sport Rider
> > > > Comparo with your new 1098 only putting out 137HP and all the fours in
> > > > the 151-159RWHP range?
>
> > > BTW the 137hp figure is the lowest I've seen, most have been in the 140-144hp range--Big deal it's
> > > still plenty fast
>
> > Sure it's plenty fast but both expensive and lacking in the benifits
> > of scavenging, a small valve train, that a four cylinder gives with
> > less work to get it. Brutus, if you like your 1098 then God bless you
> > but there was a whole lot of hype leading into the devue of the 1098
> > that may be just a tad overstated.
>
> > BTW, Why can't Ducati build a modern frame??? Hell for 40% less weight
> > they could weld up a titanuim frame in a glovebox. Same strenght, just
> > 40% less weight and the status a Duc should have. BTW, whoever in this
> > thead that stated the use of titanium VALVE SPRINGS was full of it.
> > Valves and rods, yes but it donesn't make the best spring metal. Also,
> > Pnumatic valve springs & camless solinoid actuated valves are the
> > future of IC engines, IMHO.
>
> > > They even hinted the 1098 was not even in the
>
> > > > same class as the Japanese bikes.& at $15K vs about $11K for the
> > > > fours;) This is just my opinion but Ducati "publically sold
> > > > motorcycles" have never been on par in terms of stock performance
> > > > levels compared to equal displacement Japanese bikes in two cylinder
> > > > variety. Sure you can buy a 2 valve air cooled 1000cc Monster that
> > > > will put a whoopin' on an SV-650 but what about the race reps in all
> > > > brands including the MV Agusta 1000cc.
>
> > > The MV Agusta uses a inline four-cylinder engine...
>
> > Again the engine layout inline or different V ange has -0- to do with
> > HP or punch out of the corners anymore with the big band engines.
>
> > > Curently the 1098 is the fasted prodution V-twin that I'm aware of....I still haven't come to terms
> > > with it yet
>
> > That's only because everytone else has dropped out of the market for
> > race engines. Even Honda still only makes twins in cruisers. The SV
> > 650 & 1000 are stright up and down seating low cost new UMJ bikes,
> > Yamaha dropped that parelellel 900cc twin awhile back and Kwak has
> > only a half assed 650 parellel twin to try to compete with the SV-650.
> > The BMW's, Buell 1125, & Duke 999 are an expensive nitch markets and
> > Guzzi, at $12,600 OTD even for the new OHC engine is way overpriced.
> > Like I said about a month ago, about the only smooth twin i've seen to
> > date is the very successful little SV-650 that actually has a bit
> > better power to weight ratio than the "holly Grail" of bikes or the
> > Honda VFR. There are rumors abounding now about a replacement 1000cc
> > VFR version, though:) I stated what was needed awhile back but it fell
> > on deaf ears (a simple roots blower) on a bike with half the weight &
> > displacement. Ducati, shurely has the $$ to buy a small COTS unit for
> > thier 695 or 800.
>
> > Bob Nixon.
>
> > > Or even a 4 valve Monster vs a
> > > > Bob Nixon.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Bob Nixon, just arguing, no offence intended towards Brutus.
>
> Suzuki is still working with V-Twins.
>
> They are finalizing a new SV1000 engine, without throttle valves but
> with Valvetronic. According to German magazine MOTORRAD NEWS edition
> 05/2007 a (nearly complete) prototype with significant lower fuel
> consumption.
>
> It will probably also be used in an updated 2008 V-Strom 1000, with
> the release in mid-late '08. Euro 3 compliant, and hopefully smoother
> EFI map and tuning right from the factory.
>
> I'd also really like to see the Buell/Rotax 1125R engine in an
> updated Uly. That could really sell!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Here's a picture of the new Zuke Liter Twin:
http://vstrom.info/vsri-gallery/gallery/d/72207-1/New_SV1000_engine.jpg
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion 

On Sep 25, 5:22 pm, Bob Nixon wrote:
> On Sep 25, 12:39 pm, Vaughn wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 25, 2:36 pm, Vaughn wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 25, 1:11 am, Bob Nixon wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 24, 7:54 pm, "Brutus" wrote:> "Bob Nixon" wrote in message
>
> > > > >news:1190682611.460009.152310@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...> On Sep 24, 10:41 am, "Brutus" wrote:
> > > > > > > wrote in
>
> > > > > messagenews:1190642567.790290.123830@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > > > > > On Sep 24, 12:17 am, "Andrew"
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "Bob Nixon" wrote in message...
>
> > > > [...]
>
> > > > > > As far as a Ducati winning the race I've no problem with that as
> > > > > > they've been leading the races for most of this GP season. It would be
> > > > > > kind of be like me bitching about Ferrari winning races. The Italian's
> > > > > > have always put a lot of R&D racing money back in their car/bikes; a
> > > > > > good thing but did you read the July Superbike test in the Sport Rider
> > > > > > Comparo with your new 1098 only putting out 137HP and all the fours in
> > > > > > the 151-159RWHP range?
>
> > > > > BTW the 137hp figure is the lowest I've seen, most have been in the 140-144hp range--Big deal it's
> > > > > still plenty fast
>
> > > > Sure it's plenty fast but both expensive and lacking in the benifits
> > > > of scavenging, a small valve train, that a four cylinder gives with
> > > > less work to get it. Brutus, if you like your 1098 then God bless you
> > > > but there was a whole lot of hype leading into the devue of the 1098
> > > > that may be just a tad overstated.
>
> > > > BTW, Why can't Ducati build a modern frame??? Hell for 40% less weight
> > > > they could weld up a titanuim frame in a glovebox. Same strenght, just
> > > > 40% less weight and the status a Duc should have. BTW, whoever in this
> > > > thead that stated the use of titanium VALVE SPRINGS was full of it.
> > > > Valves and rods, yes but it donesn't make the best spring metal. Also,
> > > > Pnumatic valve springs & camless solinoid actuated valves are the
> > > > future of IC engines, IMHO.
>
> > > > > They even hinted the 1098 was not even in the
>
> > > > > > same class as the Japanese bikes.& at $15K vs about $11K for the
> > > > > > fours;) This is just my opinion but Ducati "publically sold
> > > > > > motorcycles" have never been on par in terms of stock performance
> > > > > > levels compared to equal displacement Japanese bikes in two cylinder
> > > > > > variety. Sure you can buy a 2 valve air cooled 1000cc Monster that
> > > > > > will put a whoopin' on an SV-650 but what about the race reps in all
> > > > > > brands including the MV Agusta 1000cc.
>
> > > > > The MV Agusta uses a inline four-cylinder engine...
>
> > > > Again the engine layout inline or different V ange has -0- to do with
> > > > HP or punch out of the corners anymore with the big band engines.
>
> > > > > Curently the 1098 is the fasted prodution V-twin that I'm aware of....I still haven't come to terms
> > > > > with it yet
>
> > > > That's only because everytone else has dropped out of the market for
> > > > race engines. Even Honda still only makes twins in cruisers. The SV
> > > > 650 & 1000 are stright up and down seating low cost new UMJ bikes,
> > > > Yamaha dropped that parelellel 900cc twin awhile back and Kwak has
> > > > only a half assed 650 parellel twin to try to compete with the SV-650.
> > > > The BMW's, Buell 1125, & Duke 999 are an expensive nitch markets and
> > > > Guzzi, at $12,600 OTD even for the new OHC engine is way overpriced.
> > > > Like I said about a month ago, about the only smooth twin i've seen to
> > > > date is the very successful little SV-650 that actually has a bit
> > > > better power to weight ratio than the "holly Grail" of bikes or the
> > > > Honda VFR. There are rumors abounding now about a replacement 1000cc
> > > > VFR version, though:) I stated what was needed awhile back but it fell
> > > > on deaf ears (a simple roots blower) on a bike with half the weight &
> > > > displacement. Ducati, shurely has the $$ to buy a small COTS unit for
> > > > thier 695 or 800.
>
> > > > Bob Nixon.
>
> > > > > Or even a 4 valve Monster vs a
> > > > > > Bob Nixon.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Bob Nixon, just arguing, no offence intended towards Brutus.
>
> > > Suzuki is still working with V-Twins.
>
> > > They are finalizing a new SV1000 engine, without throttle valves but
> > > with Valvetronic. According to German magazine MOTORRAD NEWS edition
> > > 05/2007 a (nearly complete) prototype with significant lower fuel
> > > consumption.
>
> > > It will probably also be used in an updated 2008 V-Strom 1000, with
> > > the release in mid-late '08. Euro 3 compliant, and hopefully smoother
> > > EFI map and tuning right from the factory.
>
> > > I'd also really like to see the Buell/Rotax 1125R engine in an
> > > updated Uly. That could really sell!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Here's a picture of the new Zuke Liter Twin:http://vstrom.info/vsri-gallery/gallery/d/72207-1/New_SV1000_engine.jpg-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for the link Kurt!
>
> Very impressive. Still the perfect 90 degrees and maybe the new big SV
> will feel a bit less like riding a jackhammer compared to it's little
> brother- BTW that TL (old SV motor) goes back to 1997.
>
> Bob Nixon- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The TL and SV motors were somewhat different, with the SV peaking out
with less hp, being a little smoother, and not having a tendency to
blow up!

Riding a jackhammer? I thought you said the SV650 was the only smooth
twin you liked?!

The new SV1000VVT (vavletronic) motor will probably offer a little
more power, and suzuki claims it is 40% more fuel efficient. I'd
guess that is an ambitious estimate, and maybe 20-30% more fuel
efficiency is likely with some spirited riding. Still, as a mile
cruncher, I find that exciting.
 >> Stay informed about: so we have a MotoGP champion