Honda CB Info wanted

On Jun 30, 7:07 pm, Old F-100 <simon... DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:
> I am looking at a 69 450 and a 75 360 ... are parts (readily) available
> for these - and, if so, where would be the best place to look for them
> ... I'm in the Phoenix area ... plus, does anyone have experience with
> the CBs? I had a friend who had one 30 some years ago and it was great
> ... are they considered good bikes these days? It would not be a daily
> driver ... thanks!!

For resale or pure collectors value, go for the 450. For a nice light
rider go for the 360. Both are good bikes and parts are readily
available.

They don't vibrate THAT MUCH.....albrecht must be a post Goldwing-era
rider if he thinks either of those bike vibrate!
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted 

Bike Guy Joe wrote:

> They don't vibrate THAT MUCH

The Hondas that the OP is interested in vibrate less than an old British
parallel twin of equal displacement because they have 180 degree crankshafts.

CB360T has a 180 degree crankshaft

http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=2325742

CB450K2 has a 180 degree crankshaft

http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=2314455

CL450K2 has a 180 degree crankshaft

http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=2314581

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance

A straight twin engine may have a simple single-throw crankshaft, with both
pistons at top dead centre simultaneously. For a four-stroke engine, this
gives the best possible firing sequence, with one cylinder firing per
revolution, equally spaced. But it also gives the worst possible mechanical
balance, no better than a single cylinder engine.

Many straight twin engines therefore have an offset angle crankshaft, that is,
two throws at an angle of up to 180°, with the result that the pistons reach
top dead centre at different times. This produces better mechanical balance,
but at the cost of uneven firing.

--
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On Jul 2, 7:24 pm, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote:
> Bike Guy Joe wrote:
> > They don't vibrate THAT MUCH
>
> The Hondas that the OP is interested in vibrate less than an old British
> parallel twin of equal displacement because they have 180 degree crankshafts.
>
> CB360T has a 180 degree crankshaft
>
> http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=2325742
>
> CB450K2 has a 180 degree crankshaft
>
> http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=2314455
>
> CL450K2 has a 180 degree crankshaft
>
> http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=2314581
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_balance
>
> A straight twin engine may have a simple single-throw crankshaft, with both
> pistons at top dead centre simultaneously. For a four-stroke engine, this
> gives the best possible firing sequence, with one cylinder firing per
> revolution, equally spaced. But it also gives the worst possible mechanical
> balance, no better than a single cylinder engine.
>
> Many straight twin engines therefore have an offset angle crankshaft, that is,
> two throws at an angle of up to 180°, with the result that the pistons reach
> top dead centre at different times. This produces better mechanical balance,
> but at the cost of uneven firing.
>
> --
> Message posted via MotorcycleKB.comhttp://www.motorcyclekb.com/Uwe/Forums..aspx/bike/200707/1

Exactly what I said, only with a lot more links.
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted 

On Jun 30, 7:07 pm, Old F-100 <simon....TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote:
> I am looking at a 69 450 and a 75 360 ... are parts (readily) available
> for these - and, if so, where would be the best place to look for them
> ... I'm in the Phoenix area ... plus, does anyone have experience with
> the CBs? I had a friend who had one 30 some years ago and it was great
> ... are they considered good bikes these days? It would not be a daily
> driver ... thanks!!

Anyhow, I just went out and rode my 76 CB360T last night for a quick
50 miles to compare it to my "modern" VL800V-twin....it does vibrate a
tiny bit more at 65 mph, but nothing bothersome.

If you want to buy the 360, make sure the recall work was done-
evidenced by a : in the middle of the VIN (stamped after the work was
done)
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted 

Bike Guy Joe wrote:

> Anyhow, I just went out and rode my 76 CB360T last night for a quick
> 50 miles to compare it to my "modern" VL800V-twin....it does vibrate a
> tiny bit more at 65 mph, but nothing bothersome.

yeah, 'cause those v-twins are known to be smooth runnin' engines?

Wot?

--
-Fred W
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted 

Bike Guy Joe wrote:

>Anyhow, I just went out and rode my 76 CB360T last night for a quick
>50 miles to compare it to my "modern" VL800V-twin....it does vibrate a
>tiny bit more at 65 mph, but nothing bothersome.

Fifty miles on a Honda twin?

Those old Honda vertical twins had adequate performance for the Japanese home
market, the speed limit being 55mph, but they weren't up to cross country
touring unless the rider was meticulous about checking the oil and adding
what the engine needed.

This guy actually rode a 305cc Super Hawk from Minnesota to California. But
he was certifiable.

http://www.honda305.com/frames/zen-hld1.htm

--
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Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com wrote:
> Bike Guy Joe wrote:
>
>> Anyhow, I just went out and rode my 76 CB360T last night for a quick
>> 50 miles to compare it to my "modern" VL800V-twin....it does vibrate
>> a tiny bit more at 65 mph, but nothing bothersome.
>
> Fifty miles on a Honda twin?
>
> Those old Honda vertical twins had adequate performance for the
> Japanese home market, the speed limit being 55mph, but they weren't
> up to cross country touring unless the rider was meticulous about
> checking the oil and adding what the engine needed.
>
> This guy actually rode a 305cc Super Hawk from Minnesota to
> California. But he was certifiable.

Actually, Pirsig wasn't certifiable, he was certi_fied_.

> http://www.honda305.com/frames/zen-hld1.htm

I rode my CB400T all over New England--300 mile days weren't uncommon,
and the only real probem I had with it until the day it died outright
was that the seat was an implement of torture. My daily commute was 50
miles for a couple of years and the bike didn't need anything special in
the way of maintenance to do that commute. It certainly didn't need to
have the oil topped up halfway along. In fact it didn't consume much
oil at all IIRC.

If I ever get around to restoring it (I still have it but it's a basket
case) any hesitation I had over riding those same distances would be
related to my confidence in my own workmanship rather than anything
inherent in the design of the bike. It didn't have any problem
maintaining 70 MPH and could top 100 (at least according to the
speedometer) without any difficulty.

Looking at the records of the Iron Butt Association, I see that 19 or so
CB3xx/4xx/500 models have done Iron Butt rides including one 50CC on a
1972 CB350 (that's clean across the US, toe in the Atlantic to toe in
the Pacific, in 50 hours).

Be kind of fun to get the 400 going again, have a Daylong saddle made
for it, and do an ironbutt ride on it. Maybe, someday. But not on that
stock seat.

I don't know where you're getting your information about old Hondas,
they simply were much better than you are making them out to be.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
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"Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote in
message news:74ab7717ffae8@uwe...
| Bike Guy Joe wrote:
|
| >Anyhow, I just went out and rode my 76 CB360T last night
for a quick
| >50 miles to compare it to my "modern" VL800V-twin....it
does vibrate a
| >tiny bit more at 65 mph, but nothing bothersome.
|
| Fifty miles on a Honda twin?
|
| Those old Honda vertical twins had adequate performance
for the Japanese home
| market, the speed limit being 55mph, but they weren't up
to cross country
| touring unless the rider was meticulous about checking the
oil and adding
| what the engine needed.
|
| This guy actually rode a 305cc Super Hawk from Minnesota
to California. But
| he was certifiable.
|
| http://www.honda305.com/frames/zen-hld1.htm
|
| --
| Message posted via http://www.motorcyclekb.com
|
Actually, I disagree. I rode my Honda CL350 at
speeds up to 70 and felt quite comfortable on it, but
wouldn't want to go much faster. I put 83,000 miles on it
before I sold it and made several trips of up to 2000 miles.
I put similar mileage on my '71 CB-750K. I never had to add
oil between oil changes, but did have to lubricate the
chains pretty frequently on the road. I do kind of miss the
750K but the Gold Wings and Electra Glides were smoother on
the road. -- steve
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted 

J. Clarke wrote:

> It certainly didn't need to have the oil topped up halfway along.

Where did I ever say that Hondas needed to have their oil checked every 25
miles?

If a rider was going on a long cross country trip, he needed to check his oil
level every day. Some riders were concerned about the meaning of the red zone
on their tachometers so they asked Honda if it was OK to ride right at the
red line. Honda said, yes, just keep an eye on the oil.

>In fact it didn't consume much oil at all IIRC.

If you ride all day at high RPM, the engine will burn oil and you just top it
up. As engine redlines increase, the engine has to run close to an RPM where
the piston rings flutter and cannot seal.

In their attempts to stop piston ring flutter by shortening the stroke and
increasing the bore, the engineers wound up with larger bore pistons that
would rock in the bore and stop the rings from sealing for that reason.

If you ride a KLR650 hard, it will burn a quart of oil every 500 miles
because it has pistons that are over 4 inches in diameter.

>If I ever get around to restoring it (I still have it but it's a basket
>case) any hesitation I had over riding those same distances would be
>related to my confidence in my own workmanship rather than anything
>inherent in the design of the bike.

But, how much is your time worth? You probably got your money's worth out it
before it broke.


>Looking at the records of the Iron Butt Association, I see that 19 or so
>CB3xx/4xx/500 models have done Iron Butt rides including one 50CC on a
>1972 CB350 (that's clean across the US, toe in the Atlantic to toe in
>the Pacific, in 50 hours).

So? Who ever claimed that Iron Butt types were rational beings? The first
time I ever heard of riding coast to coast in 50 hours was from an Iron Butt
fanatic named Ron Major. I only talked to the guy twice, and I wonder how he
died, on the ST1100 or in a hospital bed.

You say, "Well maybe he died doing something he liked?"

Deet-dee-dee! If he's dead, he doesn't get to do what he enjoys any more.

An older rider once told me that when he died, he was going to miss going on
those long tours with his friends. I told him that he wasn't going to miss
riding, he wasn't going to be aware of anything.
>
>Be kind of fun to get the 400 going again, have a Daylong saddle made
>for it, and do an ironbutt ride on it. Maybe, someday. But not on that
>stock seat.

You could do an Butt Burn 1000 on a Burgman if you wanted to. But why? So you
can send proof of your route to some stranger and get a pin or a patch? I
would rather ride cross country to a tourist destination and be able to spend
my time going through museums and famous buildings, etc., instead of keeping
to somebody else's artificial schedule.

>I don't know where you're getting your information about old Hondas,
>they simply were much better than you are making them out to be.

I owned five Hondas. Three of them were from the first series of Hondas
imported into the USA and one of them was a home market 250cc Dream that a
returning serviceman brought back from Okinawa. I called that one "Nightmare
Number Three".

They never were good for much, the beancounters made the engineers cut
corners and they wound up with some designs that were meant to resemble
classic British and Italian designs.

The beancounters made the chassis designers build stamped sheetmetal frames
that resembled
steel tubing frames. Stick your finger behind the subframe of a CB350 some
time. It's not round, it's a c-shaped stamping.

The bean counters made the chassis designers use wheels that were assembled
from stampings and riveted together. The wheels looked like cast aluminum
wheels but were cheaper. Honda propaganda claimed that flexible Comstar
wheels were a "good thing".

But Honda never used Comstars on a CBR900RR, did they?

I saw a guy riding a Honda Rebel with a broken swing arm once. The gauge of
the sheetmetal was maybe 0.040 at most. I pointed out the broken swing arm to
the rider. He wasn't worried about it.

I saw a guy riding a 400 Hawk with one of the front axle clamps missing. I
pointed it out to him and
he said that he had just ridden the Hawk down from San Francisco and that he
would have a mechanic "look at it" when he got home.

I said, "Dude, I wouldn't ride that motorcycle a block without installing a
new clamp." He rode away, filled with the blissful confidence of being one of
"the nicest people on a Honda".

--
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http://www.motorcyclekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/bike/200707/1
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted 

Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> It certainly didn't need to have the oil topped up halfway along.
>
> Where did I ever say that Hondas needed to have their oil checked
> every 25 miles?
>
> If a rider was going on a long cross country trip, he needed to check
> his oil level every day.

On a long cross country trip I check the oil level in my frelling JEEP
every day. Checking the oil every day and topping up as required is
normal maintenance on any motor vehicle. Used to be back when they had
full service gas stations that the pump jockey would check the oil every
time you filled up.

> Some riders were concerned about the meaning
> of the red zone on their tachometers so they asked Honda if it was OK
> to ride right at the red line. Honda said, yes, just keep an eye on
> the oil.
>
>> In fact it didn't consume much oil at all IIRC.
>
> If you ride all day at high RPM, the engine will burn oil and you
> just top it up. As engine redlines increase, the engine has to run
> close to an RPM where the piston rings flutter and cannot seal.
>
> In their attempts to stop piston ring flutter by shortening the
> stroke and increasing the bore, the engineers wound up with larger
> bore pistons that would rock in the bore and stop the rings from
> sealing for that reason.
>
> If you ride a KLR650 hard, it will burn a quart of oil every 500 miles
> because it has pistons that are over 4 inches in diameter.
>
>> If I ever get around to restoring it (I still have it but it's a
>> basket case) any hesitation I had over riding those same distances
>> would be related to my confidence in my own workmanship rather than
>> anything inherent in the design of the bike.
>
> But, how much is your time worth? You probably got your money's worth
> out it before it broke.

When engaging in recreational activities the value of one's time is
irrelevant.

>> Looking at the records of the Iron Butt Association, I see that 19
>> or so CB3xx/4xx/500 models have done Iron Butt rides including one
>> 50CC on a 1972 CB350 (that's clean across the US, toe in the
>> Atlantic to toe in the Pacific, in 50 hours).
>
> So? Who ever claimed that Iron Butt types were rational beings?

What does rationality have to do with anything? The issue was the
reliability of Honda twins, and the fact that a number of Iron Butt
rides have been achieved on them suggests that their reliability is not
so low as you seem to be trying to suggest.

> The
> first time I ever heard of riding coast to coast in 50 hours was from
> an Iron Butt fanatic named Ron Major. I only talked to the guy twice,
> and I wonder how he died, on the ST1100 or in a hospital bed.
>
> You say, "Well maybe he died doing something he liked?"
>
> Deet-dee-dee! If he's dead, he doesn't get to do what he enjoys any
> more.

I'm a bit puzzled as to what point you are trying to make. Are you
saying that one should not ride motorcycles because one might die while
doing it? If not then what exactly are you saying?

> An older rider once told me that when he died, he was going to miss
> going on those long tours with his friends. I told him that he wasn't
> going to miss riding, he wasn't going to be aware of anything.

You've died how many times that you know this with certainty?

>> Be kind of fun to get the 400 going again, have a Daylong saddle made
>> for it, and do an ironbutt ride on it. Maybe, someday. But not on
>> that stock seat.
>
> You could do an Butt Burn 1000 on a Burgman if you wanted to.

Actually that's been done, Burgmans are supposed to be quite comfortable
for Iron Butt rides.

> But why?

I am under no obligation whatsoever to justify my actions to _you_.

> So you can send proof of your route to some stranger and get a
> pin or a patch?

Every club has its rituals.

> I would rather ride cross country to a tourist
> destination and be able to spend my time going through museums and
> famous buildings, etc., instead of keeping to somebody else's
> artificial schedule.

I'm a bit puzzled as to who you think sets one's schedule. But now it
seems that in addition to having a grudge of some kind against Honda,
you now have one agains the Iron Butt Association as well. So who do
you _not_ have a grudge against?

>> I don't know where you're getting your information about old Hondas,
>> they simply were much better than you are making them out to be.
>
> I owned five Hondas. Three of them were from the first series of
> Hondas imported into the USA

Those would be C50/70/90s?

> and one of them was a home market 250cc
> Dream that a returning serviceman brought back from Okinawa. I called
> that one "Nightmare Number Three".

And from those you generalize to the later CB series.

> They never were good for much, the beancounters made the engineers cut
> corners and they wound up with some designs that were meant to
> resemble classic British and Italian designs.
>
> The beancounters made the chassis designers build stamped sheetmetal
> frames that resembled
> steel tubing frames. Stick your finger behind the subframe of a CB350
> some time. It's not round, it's a c-shaped stamping.
>
> The bean counters made the chassis designers use wheels that were
> assembled from stampings and riveted together.

Which is a problem because?

> The wheels looked like
> cast aluminum wheels but were cheaper. Honda propaganda claimed that
> flexible Comstar wheels were a "good thing".

Well now, you're going on and on about "the bean counters" this and "the
bean counters that", and yet the bikes seem to just keep trucking.

> But Honda never used Comstars on a CBR900RR, did they?

So?

> I saw a guy riding a Honda Rebel with a broken swing arm once. The
> gauge of the sheetmetal was maybe 0.040 at most. I pointed out the
> broken swing arm to the rider. He wasn't worried about it.

I find it interesting that you took a mike to somebody's broken swing
arm.
>
> I saw a guy riding a 400 Hawk with one of the front axle clamps
> missing. I pointed it out to him and
> he said that he had just ridden the Hawk down from San Francisco and
> that he would have a mechanic "look at it" when he got home.
>
> I said, "Dude, I wouldn't ride that motorcycle a block without
> installing a new clamp." He rode away, filled with the blissful
> confidence of being one of "the nicest people on a Honda".

Seems to me, from the fact that those bikes were apparently still
rideable with key pieces missing or broken, that you've shot down your
own argument for the undependability of Hondas.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted 

Anyhow, if you want the Honda(s), buy one or both, you won't be
dissapointed.
Hondas are great bikes.
So are a lot of others.
Hondas are great, dependable, low cost bikes.
Did I mention Hondas are great bikes.

P.S., I have been proclaimed "certifiable" for various reasons, mainly
because I ride (several) different type/sizes/makes of motorcycles.

Life is good.
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted 

On Jul 4, 2:56?pm, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use....RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:

> Seems to me, from the fact that those bikes were apparently still
> rideable with key pieces missing or broken, that you've shot down your
> own argument for the undependability of Hondas.

Only a retard or a fag would ride a motorcycle that had a broken swing
arm or a missing axle clamp after having the problems pointed out to
them
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted 

Two Wheels Good, Four Wheels Bad wrote:
> On Jul 4, 2:56?pm, "J. Clarke" <jclarke.use... RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Seems to me, from the fact that those bikes were apparently still
>> rideable with key pieces missing or broken, that you've shot down
>> your own argument for the undependability of Hondas.
>
> Only a retard or a fag would ride a motorcycle that had a broken swing
> arm or a missing axle clamp after having the problems pointed out to
> them

The issue isn't the intelligence or gender orientation of the rider, the
issue is the supposed fragility of the motorcycle. The fact that the
riders in question were apparently surviving these lapses of judgment
suggests that the bike is not as fragile as claimed.

Only someone in junior high school would use "retard" and "fag" in the
same sentence by the way.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Honda CB Info wanted