Congrats on the new SV, Bob!

On Sep 22, 2:07 pm, "tomor...@erols.com" <tomor....RemoveThis@erols.com> wrote:
> On Sep 22, 12:46 pm, saddlebag <saddle....RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Oh you don't believe the book you believe in, I get it.
>
> Whatever made you make that up?

Your dodging the issue.

> You get nothing.

Thanks, that's mighty white of you.

> You prove it here daily.

Proof is a many splendored thing.

> Sad, but true.

All the Metallica head bangin has taken it's toll on ya buddy.
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:24:57 -0500, alf <ask@me> wrote:

>Michael Fell wrote:
>>>
>>> Andy, A few weeks old American
>>
>>
>> Welcome to America Andy. Glad to have you. Can we send Saddle to
>> Poland in trade?
>
>It was an almost 10 years journey to become a citizen. Not without a
>problems. A story with difficult moments to the end. Thx.
>
>
>Perhaps sending him to California where police is send to every girl
>crying at the corner of the street would suffice ...


Indeed Kalifornia would work. Who wants to chip in for the plane
tickets?
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

On Sep 22, 4:28 pm, saddlebag <saddle... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
> On Sep 22, 2:07 pm, "tomor...@erols.com" <tomor... DeleteThis @erols.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 22, 12:46 pm, saddlebag <saddle... DeleteThis @aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > Oh you don't believe the book you believe in, I get it.
>
> > Whatever made you make that up?
>
> Your dodging the issue.
>
> > You get nothing.
>
> Thanks, that's mighty white of you.
>
> > You prove it here daily.
>
> Proof is a many splendored thing.
>
> > Sad, but true.
>
> All the Metallica head bangin has taken it's toll on ya buddy.

Apostrophe.
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

On Sep 22, 2:45 pm, Michael Fell <mfell2....RemoveThis@REMOVETHISyahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:24:57 -0500, alf <ask@me> wrote:
> >Michael Fell wrote:
>
> >>> Andy, A few weeks old American
>
> >> Welcome to America Andy. Glad to have you. Can we send Saddle to
> >> Poland in trade?
>
> >It was an almost 10 years journey to become a citizen. Not without a
> >problems. A story with difficult moments to the end. Thx.
>
> >Perhaps sending him to California where police is send to every girl
> >crying at the corner of the street would suffice ...
>
> Indeed Kalifornia would work. Who wants to chip in for the plane
> tickets?

I'll kick in for a slow boat or a windowless, battered U-haul.
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

>>> How's about naming some of these
>>> scientists? Since you being a true fan of them my guess is you would
>>> know them by name.
>>
>>I'm familiar by name with only 2,
>
> Some fan you are.

I never said I was a fan of them, you did. I just know that scientists,
PhD's or not, tend to know what the word SCIENCE means, how to come up with
some, publish it, test it, argue its pro's and con's. So as far as
reasonable and clear thinkers, they are pretty much top of the food chain.


> Just about every single band I listen too I know
> each member by name and what instrument\s they play. I am talking
> perhaps thousands of bands from all styles of music here. You have no
> idea who these scientists are and what their credentials are.
>

Sure I do...if interested I collect their names, search out their
publications, and learn what they have offered. I realize the concept of
reading is difficult for you, instead of just sitting there like a lump
soaking up music with your eyes closed and all neurons taking a rest, and
you probably are in the majority with that routine, but it hardly matters
that I don't know there name NOW unless I have a current professional
interest.


>
>> and I group involved in the report you are
>>quoting was quite substantial.
>
> I quoted no report.

No, but the UN has only released 2 biggies in this century, I'm guessing its
from one or another...



>>I don't think political motivation is near
>>the size and scope you seem to assume in quite a few of your ideas Mike.
>
> Maybe. You have a crystal ball and a turbin?

No.


> Maybe you can tell us
> how these scientist for whom you never heard of think.

Go read their work. Most words have more than a single syllable, so it could
be difficult, form your own opinion. If you can't, I'm sure your wife can
read, plus she can teach you some new words along the way, you can stun your
working buddies by popping out the occasional "academic" or "derivative"
when they least expect it.


>>> Not many women I know can hold a candle
>>> to her when it comes to intelligence. The thing I really like about
>>> her and even more importantly is, she is a very kind and generous
>>> person.
>>>
>>
>>Kind and generous counts for alot more than your inexperience with real
>>smart people. I only know a few very smart people, only one of whom has a
>>PhD I might add.
>
> And what makes you the person to determine who the smart one's are?

Have you ever worked with a high horsepower intellect? I have....its always
possible your wife is one, but it is unlikely.


> Heck you couldn't even make it through grad school.

Of course I could have, I had no NEED to. If you don't understand the
difference, go ask your wife, I'm sure she can figure this out.


>>>> because seriously, no one really
>>>>cares, but still, scientists are scientists.
>>>
>>> And *real* scientists carry PHD's
>>
>>Some do. And some PhD's don't have the wherewithal to be scientists.
>
> While some Scientists don't have the necessary means to be historians

You think rote memorization of historical facts is the equivalent of
critical thinking and advanced problem solving skills? The marketplace might
disagree.


> but the fact still remains REAL scientists carry PHD's. I would bet
> the farm every single scientist that the UN has working for them carry
> PHD's.

Could be. All the guys I publish with have one.


>
>>Seriously Mike, its call SCIENCEtist for a reason, the reason being they
>>don't allow art history and basket weavers into the club.
>
> And vice versa. I don't know why you keep mentioning art history
> though.

art history, basket weaving, renaissance specialists in Wisconsin.....not
much difference in the long run.


>
>> Unless of course
>>your wife has a REAL degree hidden somewhere behind her PhD...she didn't
>>sneak a Chem E or astrophysics or MS in chemistry or something good in
>>there
>>did she, when you weren't looking?
>
> She could have if that was something she wanted to do and my guess is
> she would have still carried her typical A average throughout grad
> school.

In other words...she didn't....and now the arguement becomes, is a basket
weaving PhD worth as much as a run of the mill BS in a niche engineering
specialty? Last PhD candidate I bumped off answered that question for me.

>You know grad school where you mentioned you didn't make it
> through. Oh well the elite make it while the rest just fall through
> the cracks. Some even get Gummint jobs.

I feel really bad about not getting the MS Mike, particularly considering
after 2 years to get it, I would get paid the same. So I am being more
efficient than you could imagine by NOT doing it.
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

saddlebag wrote:

> Say you are wrongly accused of commiting a crime and are on trial. Do
> you want someone like me on your jury who is willing to weigh the
> evidence and base my decision accordingly, or do you want an
> authoritarian personality like a Christian Republican who will BELIEVE
> anything an authority figure tells them?


it does not matter. I expect from jury to as honestly as possible to
judge whether the evidence is real/sufficient/reliable or not. that is all.

there is obviously a risk here that the evidence is misleading and one
gets convicted when he/she should not- this is what I accept as a
legitimate risk/price to most of the people happy. s**t might hit a fan
everywhere. you will never have a perfectly fair system.

having said that I would trust more Christian Republican then liberal
leftist which often turn out to be extremely crude trying to keep
everybody happy.




>> there is a spiritual part to each of us, you can not deny, can you?
> Depends on how many peyote buttons I have for dinner.

so what is the number of peyote buttons determining that mystical border
line?





>>>> let me be clear - I do not love GWB/reps (they betrayed conservatives)
>>> EXACTLY, because they are not, they are nazi lite.
>> nazi? Nazi? NAZI? have you an idea what the word's meaning is ....
>
> Yes, a group of people too weak minded to do what's right and instead
> do what they're told.

very interesting definition ... but not true. even wikipedia is more
elaborative.




>> while there is a shade of hope in reps I do see any in dems. they gave
>> up their minds to the idea of making a heaven from the earth for "poor"
>> people as it would be their main job. proved so many times.
>
> Yeah real heaven. If you ever drop by Dayton let me know and I'll
> take you over to heaven sometime.

can you describe it now?


>> thx for a nice picture. 'alf' is a nickname I do not like that much but
>> have not found better. Plus it is very old - I was called that way 15
>> years ago when studing in Poland yet ... and it sticked.
>
> And it's a great fit! It stands for Alien Life Form.

because I tend to respect Christians more the leftists or because I came
from Poland?
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 15:52:53 -0600, "TroytheTroll"
<f4_boy RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

>>>> How's about naming some of these
>>>> scientists? Since you being a true fan of them my guess is you would
>>>> know them by name.
>>>
>>>I'm familiar by name with only 2,
>>
>> Some fan you are.
>
>I never said I was a fan of them, you did.

You said this:

"I'm a fan of scientists myself, furrin or not, and the UN panel which
pumps out climate change reports tends to be populated with them.
None with specialties in Renaissance information because seriously, no
one really cares, but still, scientists are scientists. And we stick
together!! Unless we are having public food fights of course. "
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

>>>>> How's about naming some of these
>>>>> scientists? Since you being a true fan of them my guess is you would
>>>>> know them by name.
>>>>
>>>>I'm familiar by name with only 2,
>>>
>>> Some fan you are.
>>
>>I never said I was a fan of them, you did.
>
> You said this:
>
> "I'm a fan of scientists myself, furrin or not, and the UN panel which
> pumps out climate change reports tends to be populated with them."

You got me...I said I was a fan of scientists. What I was THINKING when I
wrote that was that I have no specific fan-dom towards UN scientists, just
scientists in general, furrin or not.

You implied I was a fan of these specific scientists, and how could that be
true when I couldn't reel their names off the top of my head. Because I am a
fan of scientists, in general, versus the ones in question, specifically.

My bad. And good catch.
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

Michael Fell <mfell2112 RemoveThis @REMOVETHISyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> While some Scientists don't have the necessary means to be historians
> but the fact still remains REAL scientists carry PHD's. I would bet

That is a load of bullshit. In the academic world, you might *need* one,
to be *considered* a scientist. Although many of the breakthroughs claimed
by the PhD touting "scientists" can be attributed to the work of their
personal slave grad students. However, many of the technological advances,
and real world application (going from theory to something real), have been
done by non-PhD endowed people. A PhD is nice to have, but it certainly
isn't a requirement to be a scientist.

- Kurt
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

> A PhD is nice to have, but it certainly
> isn't a requirement to be a scientist.
>
> - Kurt

You know, its a pretty big tell, Mikes opinion on PhD's. I mean seriously,
when you work with them all day for years on end, and realize they have
strengths and weaknesses like anyone else, and make mistakes like anyone
else, and lack experience outside their particular areas of expertise's like
everyone else, you begin to realize....they are like everyone else.

Except they are forced to go to school for a long....long....time....to be
confused with medical doctors while not necessarily knowing anything of
value to the modern world, or even being GOOD at anything beyond writing the
final dissertation on some minutia or another which contributes nothing to
the advancement of human knowledge.

These are the ones who got a BA, found out they couldn't get a job with it,
got a Masters, discovered they were still unemployable, and went for the PhD
because they know SOME community college or another will pay them
$25G's/year to say that their basket weaver teacher has a PhD. Notice I did
NOT say "to say their basket weaver weaves beautiful baskets and wins
national competitions with their work" because of course, saying that
doesn't require a PhD. And proves the point on what a PhD is worth, versus
someone good at the actual DOING of a thing, rather than waving around a
piece of paper which says "I went to all my classes for way longer than any
rational person really wants to, and took multiple choice tests and didn't
get too many answers wrong".

I'm always a fan of the people who DO things well versus those who study
them. If the people who DO something well happen to have PhD's, all the more
power to them. Whereas having a PhD and not being good at anything, no
ability to DO something other than recite the same minutia to students or
such, whats the point? Save the years, learn how to DO something.
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

TroytheTroll wrote:

> I'm always a fan of the people who DO things well versus those who study
> them. If the people who DO something well happen to have PhD's, all the
> more power to them. Whereas having a PhD and not being good at anything,
> no ability to DO something other than recite the same minutia to
> students or such, whats the point? Save the years, learn how to DO
> something.
>

I heard there was a study proving that 80% of what scientists and PhD
produce is just a "pure clean" garbage. Still one might think that 20%
is a good number.

--
alfz1
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

> I heard there was a study proving that 80% of what scientists and PhD
> produce is just a "pure clean" garbage. Still one might think that 20% is
> a good number.

Could be. I think part of my angle here is that being a PhD, or a scientist,
or really any overeducated whatever, that everything they learned in
"school" might not be as valuable at the end of the day compared to what
they can DO and might actually be GOOD at.
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob! 

TroytheTroll <f4_boy RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> You know, its a pretty big tell, Mikes opinion on PhD's. I mean seriously,
> when you work with them all day for years on end, and realize they have
> strengths and weaknesses like anyone else, and make mistakes like anyone
> else, and lack experience outside their particular areas of expertise's like
> everyone else, you begin to realize....they are like everyone else.

Well, in my field, a PhD really helps for two reasons. First, your math
background is much more diverse. Second, you have a better idea of how
little you actually know having been exposed to so much more material. Really,
the only reason I would want one is for the extra math - which is why if I
were to go back, I'd do it in applied mathematics instead of engineering.
The engineering is easy to pick up when you have the math background for it.

- Kurt
 >> Stay informed about: Congrats on the new SV, Bob!