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External
Since: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 302
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:16 pm
Post subject: Brakes in the Rain
Archived from groups: can>rec>motorcycles, others (more info?)
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I'm no stranger to riding in the rain - we get our fair
share in Vancouver. I was noticing what I've thought was a
strange "characteristic" of my bike today, and wondering if
I really need to put up with it or not.
My brakes are awful in the rain. The first few (10?)
applications of the brakes bring enough squealing and
shuddering to make me think I'm metal to metal. They're
extremely ineffective, and I can literally stand on the
rear brake without locking it. The fronts are a little
better, but not much. After one or two applications, the
brakes definitely behave better, but if I ride for a while
without applying them, I get loud, shuddery, ineffective
brakes again.
I've subconsciously adjusted my riding technique in the
rain to leave far more stopping distance, so I don't think
my safety is greatly jeopardized.
Why in the world would brakes, which work perfectly
silently and powerfully in the dry suddenly turn into
wooden feeling, metal grating, semi-useless boat anchors?
They LOOK like they have enough pad left - and if they
didn't I'd expect similar behaviour in the dry.
For those not familiar with RZs, I have dual front and
single rear discs - single piston (I believe).
--
Cam
'89 RZ 350 |
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External
Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 236
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:01 am
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Cam Penner wrote:
> Why in the world would brakes, which work perfectly
> silently and powerfully in the dry suddenly turn into
> wooden feeling, metal grating, semi-useless boat anchors?
> They LOOK like they have enough pad left - and if they
> didn't I'd expect similar behaviour in the dry.
.... disc material? what make/model pads are you using?
..
--
/// Michael J. Tobler: motorcyclist, surfer, skydiver, \\\
\\\ and author: "Inside Linux", "C++ HowTo", "C++ Unleashed" ///
\\\ <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mtobler/mjt_linux_page.html" target="_blank">http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mtobler/mjt_linux_page.html</a> ///
Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.
-- Frank Zappa<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 302
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:16 am
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <iFsgb.2285$jO4.28@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>,
mjtobler.DeleteThis@removethis_consultant.com says...
> Cam Penner wrote:
>
> > Why in the world would brakes, which work perfectly
> > silently and powerfully in the dry suddenly turn into
> > wooden feeling, metal grating, semi-useless boat anchors?
> > They LOOK like they have enough pad left - and if they
> > didn't I'd expect similar behaviour in the dry.
>
> ... disc material? what make/model pads are you using?
To be honest, I have no idea. Are some brakes really
really sucky in wet?
--
Cam
'89 rz 350<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Nov 22, 2003
Posts: 41
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Cam Penner <Cam.Penner.news1ATpleasedontspamgoldmedalsystems.com.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<MPG.19ec86ae19ccc9ca989915.TakeThisOut@News.CIS.DFN.DE>...
> In article <iFsgb.2285$jO4.28@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com>,
> mjtobler.TakeThisOut@removethis_consultant.com says...
> > Cam Penner wrote:
>
> To be honest, I have no idea. Are some brakes really
> really sucky in wet?
Brake pads are the result of design compromises.
Some 'racing` pads are better when hot and 'really sucky in the wet`.
Pragmatist<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Jun 27, 2003
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <MPG.19ebdde762830ccc989914.RemoveThis@News.CIS.DFN.DE>,
Cam Penner
<Cam.Penner.news1ATpleasedontspamgoldmedalsystems.com.RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> I'm no stranger to riding in the rain - we get our fair
> share in Vancouver. I was noticing what I've thought was a
> strange "characteristic" of my bike today, and wondering if
> I really need to put up with it or not.
>
> My brakes are awful in the rain. The first few (10?)
> applications of the brakes bring enough squealing and
> shuddering to make me think I'm metal to metal. They're
> extremely ineffective, and I can literally stand on the
> rear brake without locking it. The fronts are a little
> better, but not much. After one or two applications, the
> brakes definitely behave better, but if I ride for a while
> without applying them, I get loud, shuddery, ineffective
> brakes again.
>
> I've subconsciously adjusted my riding technique in the
> rain to leave far more stopping distance, so I don't think
> my safety is greatly jeopardized.
>
> Why in the world would brakes, which work perfectly
> silently and powerfully in the dry suddenly turn into
> wooden feeling, metal grating, semi-useless boat anchors?
> They LOOK like they have enough pad left - and if they
> didn't I'd expect similar behaviour in the dry.
>
> For those not familiar with RZs, I have dual front and
> single rear discs - single piston (I believe).
The brake discs on my bike are drilled. If I've been riding in the rain,
sometimes the brakes don't work for the first couple of feet, and then
slowly start to work. = 
Water gets in between the brake disc and the pads and lubricates them.
Drilled discs provide a place for the water to go.
What sort of brakes does your bike have?
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.timberwoof.com" target="_blank">http://www.timberwoof.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 100
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Recently Timberwoof <timberwoof.TakeThisOut@stimpberawoofm.com> honored
rec.motorcycles with:
>
>Water gets in between the brake disc and the pads and lubricates them.
>Drilled discs provide a place for the water to go.
FWIW, when riding in the wet, I periodically work the brakes while
maintaining cruising speed, just to keep them warm and dry, relatively
speaking. Seems to work for me.
BTW, I am pleased to be part of what appears to be the inaugural
thread in can.rec.motorcyles. Let's all have an Alley Cat Amber to
celebrate, eh?
--
Al - '98 FLTRI
- '98 T409 EN
- '83 GR650
- '57 6T alt.possessive.its.has.no.apostrophe<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 302
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <timberwoof-325511.11404507102003
@typhoon.sonic.net>, timberwoof DeleteThis @stimpberawoofm.com says...
>
> The brake discs on my bike are drilled. If I've been riding in the rain,
> sometimes the brakes don't work for the first couple of feet, and then
> slowly start to work. =
Mine are slotted. They are really really bad for about the
first 50-75 feet of braking distance. They are less bad
for a while after that, but then if I don't touch the
brakes for 2-3 minutes, they get really nasty again.
I literally can stand on my rear brake and not lock the
tire on a wet, cold, road. In the dry I can lock up the
rear using 1/2 the effort.
The shudder was hard enough that it felt like the frame was
rattling.
--
Cam
'89 RZ 350<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 302
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <hk26ov0iqcj41uf4goik1scpm5fatm8s9j.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
nannerbac.RemoveThis@yahoo.com says...
> BTW, I am pleased to be part of what appears to be the inaugural
> thread in can.rec.motorcyles. Let's all have an Alley Cat Amber to
> celebrate, eh?
Already done here. Heck, I did my drinking BEFORE the
first posting. Should I have another?
--
Cam
'89 RZ 350<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Jun 28, 2003
Posts: 236
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Cam Penner wrote:
>> ... disc material? what make/model pads are you using?
>
> To be honest, I have no idea. Are some brakes really
> really sucky in wet?
.... personally, i think so ...
>http://randyo.teamft.com/Maintenance/General_Brake_Info.htm#When%20it's%20time%20to%20replace%20pads,
..
--
/// Michael J. Tobler: motorcyclist, surfer, skydiver, \\\
\\\ and author: "Inside Linux", "C++ HowTo", "C++ Unleashed" ///
\\\ <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mtobler/mjt_linux_page.html" target="_blank">http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mtobler/mjt_linux_page.html</a> ///
fortune: cpu time/usefulness ratio too high -- core dumped.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Aug 06, 2003
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:19 am
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Cam Penner"
<Cam.Penner.news1ATpleasedontspamgoldmedalsystems.com.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MPG.19ecbaffd8ce016989916@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
> In article <timberwoof-325511.11404507102003
> @typhoon.sonic.net>, timberwoof.DeleteThis@stimpberawoofm.com says...
> >
> > The brake discs on my bike are drilled. If I've been riding in the rain,
> > sometimes the brakes don't work for the first couple of feet, and then
> > slowly start to work. =
>
> Mine are slotted. They are really really bad for about the
> first 50-75 feet of braking distance. They are less bad
> for a while after that, but then if I don't touch the
> brakes for 2-3 minutes, they get really nasty again.
>
> I literally can stand on my rear brake and not lock the
> tire on a wet, cold, road. In the dry I can lock up the
> rear using 1/2 the effort.
>
> The shudder was hard enough that it felt like the frame was
> rattling.
>
> --
> Cam
> '89 RZ 350
Cam,
I ride a 79 GoldWing...it too has scary brakes in the rain. Smooth
rotors-no holes in them (2 front,1 rear) for the water to go away quickly...
I'll be putting on aftermarket rotors (EBC) over the winter. Pricey but it
should keep the "pucker factor" down to manageable levels.
Kevin "79" GL1000<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Jun 27, 2003
Posts: 21
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:22 am
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <hk26ov0iqcj41uf4goik1scpm5fatm8s9j DeleteThis @4ax.com>,
Brennan <nannerbac DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> can.rec.motorcyles
Hmmm. Say those words. They're funny.
(I was born in BC but I live in the BA. Can I come?)
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.timberwoof.com" target="_blank">http://www.timberwoof.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 302
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:22 am
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <timberwoof-4A84B8.16220307102003
@typhoon.sonic.net>, timberwoof.RemoveThis@stimpberawoofm.com says...
> In article <hk26ov0iqcj41uf4goik1scpm5fatm8s9j.RemoveThis@4ax.com>,
> Brennan <nannerbac.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > can.rec.motorcyles
>
> Hmmm. Say those words. They're funny.
>
> (I was born in BC but I live in the BA. Can I come?)
Only if you know how to BS.
--
Cam
'89 RZ 350<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Jul 23, 2003
Posts: 688
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Cam Penner wrote:
>
> Are some brakes really really sucky in wet?
It depends upon the composition ocf the brake pads, Cam.
Pads with a high metallic comtent tend to cut through the film of water
on the disc better than those without.
Early metallic pads weren't kind on the discs but the metallic modern
pads aren't so bad.
How old are the pads in your brakes? And, if they were changed only
recently, did you buy cheap ones or expensive ones...?
Whatever, you are experiencing the "interesting" life that the riders of
the first bikes with disc brakes had. It used to be exciting to go for
the brakes in a hurry and have nothing happen for a couple of wheel
revolutions. 'Cause then you would instinctively squeeze harder and,
once the water had been swept off the disc by the pads, the brakes would
suddenly be on REAL hard in the wet...
Ah yes, those good old days of riding!
--
Allan Kirk
Megarider Organisation
(Saving motorcyclists'lives since 1971)
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.megarider.com" target="_blank">www.megarider.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Jul 18, 2003
Posts: 12
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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NZMSC <nzmscon RemoveThis @paradise.net.nz> wrote in
news:3F839B58.892D516C@paradise.net.nz:
> Pads with a high metallic comtent tend to cut through the film of
> water on the disc better than those without.
>
> Early metallic pads weren't kind on the discs but the metallic
> modern pads aren't so bad.
I replaced my fronts on the '87 Savage with EBC's, with only 6,400
miles on it, the OEM metallics were tearing up the front rotor, not to
mention the loud squealing when stopping.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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External
Since: Sep 10, 2003
Posts: 302
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Brakes in the Rain [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article <3F839B58.892D516C RemoveThis @paradise.net.nz>,
nzmscon RemoveThis @paradise.net.nz says...
> Cam Penner wrote:
>
> >
> > Are some brakes really really sucky in wet?
>
> It depends upon the composition ocf the brake pads, Cam.
>
> Pads with a high metallic comtent tend to cut through the film of water
> on the disc better than those without.
>
> Early metallic pads weren't kind on the discs but the metallic modern
> pads aren't so bad.
>
> How old are the pads in your brakes? And, if they were changed only
> recently, did you buy cheap ones or expensive ones...?
They're not new. I've been riding with them like this for
a relatively long time. Now that this discussion has taken
place, I vaguely recall being asked what kind of pad I
wanted, and I went for some fairly high performance ones.
I guess performance was measured in the dry. I'll probably
live with these for a few more months, and then swap them
out for some "all weather" pads.
> Whatever, you are experiencing the "interesting" life that the riders of
> the first bikes with disc brakes had. It used to be exciting to go for
> the brakes in a hurry and have nothing happen for a couple of wheel
> revolutions. 'Cause then you would instinctively squeeze harder and,
> once the water had been swept off the disc by the pads, the brakes would
> suddenly be on REAL hard in the wet...
I can imagine!. Fortunately (?) mine don't just grab hard.
It's a gradual process.
--
Cam
'89 RZ 350<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Brakes in the Rain |
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