80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect

On Jun 7, 4:51 pm, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote:

> 4-stroke box stock production gradually swept the two strokes away.
>
> I remember talking to a Harley rider at Griffith Observatory in the mid-
> 1980's.
>
> He told me that as much as he loved his Harley bagger, he loved GP road
> racing more. He was the last guy to win the #1 plate on a GP bike in that
> club, and he said that he hated what box stock racing was doing to the sport..

GP bikes are great for spectators and production-based bikes are great
for participation. Guess it depends on where your interests lay.

I hope that the massive technological improvements wrought by
production bike racing will be poured out in full force on real world
motorcycles in the near future, instead of (mostly) only benefitting
hardcore race replicas.

My S4Rs is MUCH more fun to ride on public roads than any race replica
I've ever ridden, but it probably would have a tougher time competing
(funwise) against a similarly set-up street bike utilizing the current
GSXR750 chassis and motor without the racetrack ergonomics.
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

On Jun 7, 9:20 pm, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote:
> tomor... RemoveThis @erols.com wrote:
> >GP bikes are great for spectators and production-based bikes are great
> >for participation. Guess it depends on where your interests lay.
>
> Production based road racing clases are really great for the manufacturers,
> race promoters, race track owners, racing clubs, riding schools, aftermarket
> apparel manufacturers, and dealerships.
>
> Those of us who raced dirtbikes in the 1970's knew exactly what was going to
> happen in the 1980's:
> the new sport was going to get swamped with a tidal wave of newbies and the
> wave would eventually recede.

I see no sign whatsoever of it receding. I started club racing in
1989 and retired in 2001; taught in the MARRC roadracing licensing
school for CCS and WERA for three years and since then have just done
track days.

The numbers appear to be increasing every single damn year.

The grids are full and track days are selling ou in advance.

> Promoters and grass roots racing clubs and track owners saw the possibility
> of making a lot of money and they competed for it.

It's not just that the promoters and sanctioning bodies are making
money, lots of riders who would otherwise be practicing their skills
on the public streets are taking to the tracks.

> >I hope that the massive technological improvements wrought by
> >production bike racing will be poured out in full force on real world
> >motorcycles in the near future, instead of (mostly) only benefitting
> >hardcore race replicas.
>
> The UJM's of the early 1980's were inspired by the GP bikes of the 1960's and
> now the race replicas of the 21st century are almost as fast as the MotoGP
> bikes---if the rider has the courage and ability to explore their limits.

The punch line is how many riders of race rep 600s and literbikes
think that they *have* explored the limits of those bikes!

> >My S4Rs is MUCH more fun to ride on public roads than any race replica
> >I've ever ridden, but it probably would have a tougher time competing
> >(funwise) against a similarly set-up street bike utilizing the current
> >GSXR750 chassis and motor without the racetrack ergonomics.
>
> There is a physical envelope in which each vehicle is at its best. I could go
> much faster on a cowtrail riding a 125cc dirt bike than I could go riding a
> GSXR...

PerZACKly.
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

Bob Nixon wrote:
>I figured the math and those
>little 250's must be putting old at least 100 HP and weight <275 lbs
>and host mostly ~100lb riders.

Yes, the top teams were putting out 100 horsepower over ten years ago in AMA
pro racing when there was still a 250cc GP class.

And they were little guys, just as you say. I remember seeing Edwards and
Jimmy Felice and one of the Roberts boys and somebody else coming down into
Turn 11 at Laguna Seca and you could have covered those guys with the
proverbial blanket

The best riders, like Colin Edwards and the top stars went to Europe where
the scene was so intense that if they lifted their head from behind the
fairing 100 feet too soon at the end of a straight two guys would pass them.

Then there were just a few TZ250 riders left, like Rich Oliver and Randy
Renfrow in the GP 250 class and it was a given who was going to win the class.


I remember getting bored and leaving Sears Point early when Renfrow and
Oliver was so dominant over the guys who were struggling on 1980's steel
frame TZ's.

But we'd occasionally see Nick Ienatsch or Oliver humiliate the
open class bikes in Formula USA.

And Kenny Roberts even entered a TZ500 in FUSA one year,and the 4-stroke
riders whined about that, saying that the basic rule in FUSA was "no GP
motors" and the 2-strokers were gone.

4-stroke box stock production gradually swept the two strokes away.

I remember talking to a Harley rider at Griffith Observatory in the mid-
1980's.

He told me that as much as he loved his Harley bagger, he loved GP road
racing more. He was the last guy to win the #1 plate on a GP bike in that
club, and he said that he hated what box stock racing was doing to the sport..
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

On Jun 7, 8:53 am, Bob Nixon <bigrex2....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Now that I've gone backwards to smaller displacement two stroke bikes
> (due mainly to them being light & my limited strength etc), bikes like
> Honda's old triple V-400cc two stroke (saw one at seca once), Zuk
> Gamma's, RD-500's, my RZ-350, 250 race Prillers & the venerable TZ-250
> like AB either own's or did in the past.
>
> BTW, while watching MGP 250, 800 from Magello IT last week on SPEED
> the announcer stated than the 250's were topping out on a radar @ 175
> MPH down that long front straight, while the 800's were just a hair
> under 200MPH. I was also taken back a bit by how little difference in
> lap times at a large track like Mugello. I figured the math and those
> little 250's must be putting old at least 100 HP and weight <275 lbs
> and host mostly ~100lb riders.
>
> Does anyone have any hard data on the race or MGP 250cc or even 125cc
> race bikes?
>
> PS. Got a call from the repair shop yesterday. I should have my RZ
> back within a week.



have fun bob,

you might also look at the latest batch of high end ultra light
motards, not the japanese ones that are most heavy or non licensable
on the street such as the yz yamaha 500's. light and fast but not
licensable

some can be lowered by various means, you can get 3" on the seat
usually, and 2" front and rear shocks.



Phil Scott
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

On Jun 7, 9:22 am, BryanUT <nestl....DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Jun 7, 9:53 am, Bob Nixon <bigrex2....DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > PS. Got a call from the repair shop yesterday. I should have my RZ
> > back within a week.
>
> I saw this and thought of you:
>
> http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/mcy/346495496.html

Thanks, Bryan. I had a 78 400 Daytona Special (last year for the RD
series). The 400's had a bit lower power band but it made the bike a
bit less hyper and the 78 had butterfly valves at the exhaust output
that reduced emmisions and they got 60MPG. Great little bike for a
100-200 miles day but not the fun and room of my GS1000 for camping &
stuff back then.
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

On Jun 7, 9:03 pm, phil scott <p... DeleteThis @philscott.net> wrote:
> On Jun 7, 8:53 am, Bob Nixon <bigrex2... DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Now that I've gone backwards to smaller displacement two stroke bikes
> > (due mainly to them being light & my limited strength etc), bikes like
> > Honda's old triple V-400cc two stroke (saw one at seca once), Zuk
> > Gamma's, RD-500's, my RZ-350, 250 race Prillers & the venerable TZ-250
> > like AB either own's or did in the past.
>
> > BTW, while watching MGP 250, 800 from Magello IT last week on SPEED
> > the announcer stated than the 250's were topping out on a radar @ 175
> > MPH down that long front straight, while the 800's were just a hair
> > under 200MPH. I was also taken back a bit by how little difference in
> > lap times at a large track like Mugello. I figured the math and those
> > little 250's must be putting old at least 100 HP and weight <275 lbs
> > and host mostly ~100lb riders.
>
> > Does anyone have any hard data on the race or MGP 250cc or even 125cc
> > race bikes?
>
> > PS. Got a call from the repair shop yesterday. I should have my RZ
> > back within a week.
>
> have fun bob,
>
> you might also look at the latest batch of high end ultra light
> motards, not the japanese ones that are most heavy or non licensable
> on the street such as the yz yamaha 500's. light and fast but not
> licensable
>
> some can be lowered by various means, you can get 3" on the seat
> usually, and 2" front and rear shocks.
>
> Phil Scott- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks, Phil but I've never been able to stomach 4 stroke singles,
especially without an electric starter:)
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

On Jun 7, 1:51 pm, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote:
> Bob Nixon wrote:
> >I figured the math and those
> >little 250's must be putting old at least 100 HP and weight <275 lbs
> >and host mostly ~100lb riders.
>
> Yes, the top teams were putting out 100 horsepower over ten years ago in AMA
> pro racing when there was still a 250cc GP class.
>
> And they were little guys, just as you say. I remember seeing Edwards and
> Jimmy Felice and one of the Roberts boys and somebody else coming down into
> Turn 11 at Laguna Seca and you could have covered those guys with the
> proverbial blanket
>
> The best riders, like Colin Edwards and the top stars went to Europe where
> the scene was so intense that if they lifted their head from behind the
> fairing 100 feet too soon at the end of a straight two guys would pass them.
>
> Then there were just a few TZ250 riders left, like Rich Oliver and Randy
> Renfrow in the GP 250 class and it was a given who was going to win the class.
>
> I remember getting bored and leaving Sears Point early when Renfrow and
> Oliver was so dominant over the guys who were struggling on 1980's steel
> frame TZ's.
>
> But we'd occasionally see Nick Ienatsch or Oliver humiliate the
> open class bikes in Formula USA.
>
> And Kenny Roberts even entered a TZ500 in FUSA one year,and the 4-stroke
> riders whined about that, saying that the basic rule in FUSA was "no GP
> motors" and the 2-strokers were gone.
>
> 4-stroke box stock production gradually swept the two strokes away.
>
> I remember talking to a Harley rider at Griffith Observatory in the mid-
> 1980's.
>
> He told me that as much as he loved his Harley bagger, he loved GP road
> racing more. He was the last guy to win the #1 plate on a GP bike in that
> club, and he said that he hated what box stock racing was doing to the sport..

Thanks for the info Crusty.
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

On Jun 7, 3:47 pm, "tomor...@erols.com" <tomor....DeleteThis@erols.com> wrote:
> On Jun 7, 4:51 pm, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote:
>
> > 4-stroke box stock production gradually swept the two strokes away.
>
> > I remember talking to a Harley rider at Griffith Observatory in the mid-
> > 1980's.
>
> > He told me that as much as he loved his Harley bagger, he loved GP road
> > racing more. He was the last guy to win the #1 plate on a GP bike in that
> > club, and he said that he hated what box stock racing was doing to the sport..
>
> GP bikes are great for spectators and production-based bikes are great
> for participation. Guess it depends on where your interests lay.
>
> I hope that the massive technological improvements wrought by
> production bike racing will be poured out in full force on real world
> motorcycles in the near future, instead of (mostly) only benefitting
> hardcore race replicas.
>
> My S4Rs is MUCH more fun to ride on public roads than any race replica
> I've ever ridden, but it probably would have a tougher time competing
> (funwise) against a similarly set-up street bike utilizing the current
> GSXR750 chassis and motor without the racetrack ergonomics.

Isn't your S4Rs more a street bike than a 999 oe 1098. Those two would
prolly give a GSXR 750 a run for it's money, of course, given a good
rider:)
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

tomorrow.TakeThisOut@erols.com wrote:

>GP bikes are great for spectators and production-based bikes are great
>for participation. Guess it depends on where your interests lay.

Production based road racing clases are really great for the manufacturers,
race promoters, race track owners, racing clubs, riding schools, aftermarket
apparel manufacturers, and dealerships.

Those of us who raced dirtbikes in the 1970's knew exactly what was going to
happen in the 1980's:
the new sport was going to get swamped with a tidal wave of newbies and the
wave would eventually recede.

Promoters and grass roots racing clubs and track owners saw the possibility
of making a lot of money and they competed for it.
>
>I hope that the massive technological improvements wrought by
>production bike racing will be poured out in full force on real world
>motorcycles in the near future, instead of (mostly) only benefitting
>hardcore race replicas.

The UJM's of the early 1980's were inspired by the GP bikes of the 1960's and
now the race replicas of the 21st century are almost as fast as the MotoGP
bikes---if the rider has the courage and ability to explore their limits.
>
>My S4Rs is MUCH more fun to ride on public roads than any race replica
>I've ever ridden, but it probably would have a tougher time competing
>(funwise) against a similarly set-up street bike utilizing the current
>GSXR750 chassis and motor without the racetrack ergonomics.

There is a physical envelope in which each vehicle is at its best. I could go
much faster on a cowtrail riding a 125cc dirt bike than I could go riding a
GSXR...

--
Message posted via http://www.motorcyclekb.com
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

On Jun 8, 1:10 am, Bob Nixon <bigrex2... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 7, 9:22 am, BryanUT <nestl... RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 7, 9:53 am, Bob Nixon <bigrex2... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > PS. Got a call from the repair shop yesterday. I should have my RZ
> > > back within a week.
>
> > I saw this and thought of you:
>
> >http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/mcy/346495496.html
>
> Thanks, Bryan. I had a 78 400 Daytona Special (last year for the RD
> series). The 400's had a bit lower power band but it made the bike a
> bit less hyper and the 78 had butterfly valves at the exhaust output
> that reduced emmisions and they got 60MPG. Great little bike for a
> 100-200 miles day but not the fun and room of my GS1000 for camping &
> stuff back then.

In the U.S., the RD400F Daytona Special was a 1979 model. 1978 model
Yamahas had the "E" year suffix:

1974 = RD350A
1975 = RD350B
1976 = RD400C
1977 = RD400D
1978 = RD400E
1979 = RD400F

I had two 1975 RD350Bs, a 1975 RD250B, a 1977 XS650D, a 1978 SR500E, a
1979 XS750F, a 1981 SR500H, and a 1984 RZ350 (don't recall the model
year suffix for that one!) Kenny Roberts replica. Ah, memories....
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

On Jun 8, 1:17 am, Bob Nixon <bigrex2... RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 7, 3:47 pm, "tomor...@erols.com" <tomor... RemoveThis @erols.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 7, 4:51 pm, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote:
>
> > > 4-stroke box stock production gradually swept the two strokes away.
>
> > > I remember talking to a Harley rider at Griffith Observatory in the mid-
> > > 1980's.
>
> > > He told me that as much as he loved his Harley bagger, he loved GP road
> > > racing more. He was the last guy to win the #1 plate on a GP bike in that
> > > club, and he said that he hated what box stock racing was doing to the sport..
>
> > GP bikes are great for spectators and production-based bikes are great
> > for participation. Guess it depends on where your interests lay.
>
> > I hope that the massive technological improvements wrought by
> > production bike racing will be poured out in full force on real world
> > motorcycles in the near future, instead of (mostly) only benefitting
> > hardcore race replicas.
>
> > My S4Rs is MUCH more fun to ride on public roads than any race replica
> > I've ever ridden, but it probably would have a tougher time competing
> > (funwise) against a similarly set-up street bike utilizing the current
> > GSXR750 chassis and motor without the racetrack ergonomics.
>
> Isn't your S4Rs more a street bike than a 999 oe 1098. Those two would
> prolly give a GSXR 750 a run for it's money, of course, given a good
> rider:)

The S4Rs has the same engine as the 999, without the shower-type fuel
injectors (no room in the airbox) and slightly different cams. Rated
at 130 hp instead of 140. After installing the Termignoni 50mm
exhaust system, my S4Rs makes approximately the same horsepower as a
stock 999 without Termis. Otoh, it has the Ohlins shock and fork off
the 999S model, along with the radial mounted Brembo brakes off the
999S model, so the suspension and brakes are better than those on the
stock 999 and 1098. You have to upgrade to the 1098S to get the
suspension and brakes that come stock on the S4Rs.

And yes, the S4Rs is a much better streetbike than either the 999 or
the 1098.
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

On Jun 7, 10:12 pm, Bob Nixon <bigrex2....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 7, 9:03 pm, phil scott <p....RemoveThis@philscott.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 7, 8:53 am, Bob Nixon <bigrex2....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Now that I've gone backwards to smaller displacement two stroke bikes
> > > (due mainly to them being light & my limited strength etc), bikes like
> > > Honda's old triple V-400cc two stroke (saw one at seca once), Zuk
> > > Gamma's, RD-500's, my RZ-350, 250 race Prillers & the venerable TZ-250
> > > like AB either own's or did in the past.
>
> > > BTW, while watching MGP 250, 800 from Magello IT last week on SPEED
> > > the announcer stated than the 250's were topping out on a radar @ 175
> > > MPH down that long front straight, while the 800's were just a hair
> > > under 200MPH. I was also taken back a bit by how little difference in
> > > lap times at a large track like Mugello. I figured the math and those
> > > little 250's must be putting old at least 100 HP and weight <275 lbs
> > > and host mostly ~100lb riders.
>
> > > Does anyone have any hard data on the race or MGP 250cc or even 125cc
> > > race bikes?
>
> > > PS. Got a call from the repair shop yesterday. I should have my RZ
> > > back within a week.
>
> > have fun bob,
>
> > you might also look at the latest batch of high end ultra light
> > motards, not the japanese ones that are most heavy or non licensable
> > on the street such as the yz yamaha 500's. light and fast but not
> > licensable
>
> > some can be lowered by various means, you can get 3" on the seat
> > usually, and 2" front and rear shocks.
>
> > Phil Scott- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks, Phil but I've never been able to stomach 4 stroke singles,
> especially without an electric starter:)

most big singles gots an electric starter these days.

one point you may be missing is the vastly increased amount of fun as
the machine goes lighter, especially when you have the same
horrsepower, the 500 singles wheelie in all 4 gears... not so much
because of the HP, but the light weight. the older two strokes
are too heavy for that, a heavy fun penalty comes with that
configuration.

now if you dont like the singles, but did well with the sv twin, you
know of course about the new v twin motards, one of those would be a
hoot for you... also, guys racing those turn them in every year, you
can get one used cheap on ebay when they come up.. one season of
racing is not enough to tear up the bottom end, just the rings and
valves...you can fix that.

then you have 60 hp or so in a 250 lb frame...thats about 5 times more
fun than the same hp in a 350 lb frame... you can test that by
finding a fat chick sometime to put on the back of yer bike.





Phil Scott





- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect 

Bob Nixon wrote:
> On Jun 7, 9:22 am, BryanUT <nestl....RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 9:53 am, Bob Nixon <bigrex2....RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> PS. Got a call from the repair shop yesterday. I should have my RZ
>>> back within a week.
>> I saw this and thought of you:
>>
>> http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/mcy/346495496.html
>
> Thanks, Bryan. I had a 78 400 Daytona Special (last year for the RD
> series). The 400's had a bit lower power band but it made the bike a
> bit less hyper and the 78 had butterfly valves at the exhaust output
> that reduced emmisions and they got 60MPG. Great little bike for a
> 100-200 miles day but not the fun and room of my GS1000 for camping &
> stuff back then.
>
That's the same bike I learned to ride on back when I was 15. My oldest
brother owned one. He rode it to the HD factory to work every day
 >> Stay informed about: 80's redux, more specific TZ-250's, Priller-250 ect